Pope John Paul II ~ Goodbye To A Good Man

[Mirek]

And of course you, Dem, think that 'liberation theology' is a good thing, right?

Mirek

Exactly!

And my respect goes to those priests and nuns in Latin America that
were tortured or/and killed for their brave stance and not
to any Pope.

Hey - do you know ANYTHING about "liberation theology" then?
Christ with AK-47? Mixture of faith and marxism? Rifles hidden in churches?

Hey, Dem... are you really pro or against war?

Mirek

[Jo]

I'm literally rolling about on the floor in unbounded mirth

Last time I looked, Bee, all the paraphernalia of the female of the species were present and none of the male ones (mind you, I AM a bit hairy - but I thought that was just a sign of extreme old age ) I also seem to remember I was accused in another thread of something to do with denying my femininity? But it's really not important enough to check those exact details.... just thought I'd mention it.....

Thanks for the advice Simon - but I'm rapidly learning here not to argue with idiots - they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

Hi Mirek - it's nice to see you here - we miss you in the chatroom...I do hope no-one scared you away

I can see you're a good catholic - you follow the party line... we didn't hear a great deal from the Catholic church 10-odd years ago in the midst of our own very public oppression... I remember it was always the Anglican church who was at the forefront of dissension against the Nationalist government... mostly in the form of Archbishop Desmond Tutu. Now there's a good man - give me one of him to every ten of your popes any day.

[Bobbie]

A few inadequate words for Jo, Pirate's Apprentice Extraordinaire.

Over the years, Jo, I've smiled (and laughed out loud, and rolled in the aisles) a LOT at/with you, in the chat room, in email, and during all those late night soul bearing sessions on MSN, when we were trying so hard to heal (we DID heal!!) .. and you are still making me smile - with your wit, your wisdom, your other-worldly observance, your SELF observance. You got some class, girl... you make me take a deep breath here and think.. "this ol' motherf&*$%'ng forum is gonna make it after all."

Apart from that, you taught me an entire new language consisting solely of typos... THANK YOU!!

Hugs,
Bobbles

[Kush]

This thread reminds me of the Ronald Reagan one. An old man of 85+ years and of international stature and loved by many dies ravaged by disease (Alzheimers, Parkinson's - take your pick), is barely laid to rest and the young, able and anonymous come out of the woodwork drawing their knives and hacking away at a dead man's dignity.
If there is a message in LC's music , thats probably not it.


There's a meanness inside and it shivers my bones
That's the thing about mercy I guess
There's no man so wicked he cannot come home
Nor so good he passes each test.

- John Hiatt

[Insanitor]

Hey Jo! I am glad to see you still flying around in here too. I can't remember the thread where you threw down your hat in disgust and left, vowing not to return (can't remember, but the cast was the same). I am glad you have returned. Hope your dizziness abates soon.

Simon, well said!

IC

[bee]

Last time I looked, Bee, all the paraphernalia of the female of the species were present and none of the male ones (mind you, I AM a bit hairy - but I thought that was just a sign of extreme old age ) I also seem to remember I was accused in another thread of something to do with denying my femininity? But it's really not important enough to check those exact details.... just thought I'd mention it.....

Dear Jo-have never been curious of your gender or about your hairy spots, sorry if I have obviously addressed you as a man.
The thing is, that I had this assumption of the Forum, that all of the ladies I've met here are extremely intelligent, sophisticated and knowledgeable- Thcoco, Lizzy, Laurie, Paula, Linda, Sandra, Ann-Marie.etc. I've have not read your posts as Bobbie testifies being a huge fan of yours, mostly because of after the brief viewing, dismissing immediately founding too much ignorance and lack of any originality.
Sure enough I assumed you are one of the ignorant gentleman demonstrating a full scale assets of homo-vulgaris. My mistake, but then again, this was not a "women seek man" or "man seek women" or "man seek man" or, etc., forum, gender did not matter to me but the thought and expression.

But it's really not important enough to check those exact details.... just thought I'd mention it.....

I have no wish to check any exact details-was enough to check the flat table of the goods exposed in the area above your neck.

[Insanitor]

Gotta love that Christian spirit Jo!

[Tony]

What a happy bunch we are here, full of tolerance and kindness. It is always a joy to read how the fans of Mr Cohen while away their spare time.

[Dem]

Mirek wrote

Christ with AK-47?

Yes, a Christ with a AK-47 is much better than a Christ with a child raped by a priest, a Vatican bank and an Opus Dei organization.

Dem

PS) I am pro-liberation

[lizzytysh]

Speaking of MSN, I haven't seen you there in a long time, Jo. Granted, I'm relatively seldom in the realm, but when I am.....you're not. Or, seemingly so.

There's a meanness inside and it shivers my bones
That's the thing about mercy I guess
There's no man so wicked he cannot come home
Nor so good he passes each test.

- John Hiatt

Very apropos, Kush.

Very apropos, as well:

. . . is barely laid to rest and the young, able and anonymous come out of the woodwork drawing their knives and hacking away at a dead man's dignity.
If there is a message in LC's music , thats probably not it.

Except, we'll need to change "barely" to "not even."

[bee]

Gotta love that Christian spirit Jo!

If you didn't recognize the love, humility, sacrifices, honesty, truthfulness, spirit, kindness, courage, intellect, poetry in Pope JP2, how would you possibly recognize it in any of us who loved him? Just leave him to rest in peace, enough of your stones and knives.
Dem, please go and do something courageous, put your life at servise for others, then you'll see how it goes, and how many stones will be thrown at you, how many knives cutting your flash.

[Mirek]

Mirek wrote

Christ with AK-47?

Yes, a Christ with a AK-47 is much better than a Christ with a child raped by a priest, a Vatican bank and an Opus Dei organization.

PS) I am pro-liberation

Aha, so you're a fan of those Greek colonels in the 40s, too?

For me it doesn't matter who holds the gun and pulls the trigger. War is evil, and that ends the story.
Probably you're far too young to know anything about situation in which some armed men point guns at you... It's so easy to criticise almost everyone and everything sitting in a cosy apartment.

I guess the only person that knows everything about everything is you. And that does not apply only to this thread.
You were expert even on archeology in Iraq, as far as I remember.

That is my last post here, because this discussion with you, Dem, leads nowhere.

Mirek

[peter danielsen]

Dear mirek, you wrote

"Hello Peter - another man full of love and respect for others.
Again, I will ask for the source of that Luther citation - 'cos I am pretty sure that was something a bit different.
Another thing is - when and where did JP 2 claim holiness for himself?

At least try to stick to facts, even when you want to tell us how you hate others. And don't support your personal opinions with lies, Peter."

Martin Luther had love and respect for others. He called the pope at that time a fart as in the word "fart" This is from one of his polemic writings of course, I shall find the precise place for you, but I dont have the book myself. jp2 claimed holiness for himself as do the whole of the catholic church as an institution. In protestant view the holiness is given by grace, not by claiming to be the follower of peter the apostel. The whole idea of whoprshipping saints share the same trust in people and not in God and the holy spirit. If people do good deeds, and I believe that the late pope has said and done lots of the kind the honour should be directed to God and not to the man. Why do I hate others if I dont share in their prace of mans pointing to himself. I believe that true hate comes from those who claim to have absolute truth and faith...but I may be wrong.

I love all catholics, buddist, muslims, and whorshippers of the human heart. But I dont agree with them. I think they place the holy mainly in the heart of men and not in the heart of god, the source of love This idea was an outrage 2005 years ago, and is today.

[Mirek]

Dear mirek, you wrote

"Hello Peter - another man full of love and respect for others.
Again, I will ask for the source of that Luther citation - 'cos I am pretty sure that was something a bit different.
Another thing is - when and where did JP 2 claim holiness for himself?

At least try to stick to facts, even when you want to tell us how you hate others. And don't support your personal opinions with lies, Peter."

Martin Luther had love and respect for others. He called the pope at that time a fart as in the word "fart" This is from one of his polemic writings of course, I shall find the precise place for you, but I dont have the book myself. jp2 claimed holiness for himself as do the whole of the catholic church as an institution. In protestant view the holiness is given by grace, not by claiming to be the follower of peter the apostel. The whole idea of whoprshipping saints share the same trust in people and not in God and the holy spirit. If people do good deeds, and I believe that the late pope has said and done lots of the kind the honour should be directed to God and not to the man. Why do I hate others if I dont share in their prace of mans pointing to himself. I believe that true hate comes from those who claim to have absolute truth and faith...but I may be wrong.

I love all catholics, buddist, muslims, and whorshippers of the human heart. But I dont agree with them. I think they place the holy mainly in the heart of men and not in the heart of god, the source of love This idea was an outrage 2005 years ago, and is today.

Peter - please find just ONE JP2 sentence in which he claims holiness of himself. Believe me - you are not able to find such a statement - written or said by John Paul II.

Here I will help you with farting Martin Luther:
"Almost every night when I wake up the devil is there and wants to dispute with me. I have come to this conclusion: When the argument that the Christian is without the law and above the law doesn't help, I instantly chase him away with a fart.--Martin Luther (1483-1546), Luther's Works, Volume 54, Table Talk_ [1967], Number 469)"

Mirek

[Jo]

Think upi fir th7ose kiand worlds Bobbles

I don't remember either which thread that was Insanitor - but you're right - it was the same cast. It was probably unclear - but I meant I was leaving only that thread - not the entire forum.

Don't you know when to quit Bee? Give it a rest before you make a complete and utter fool of yourself.

Mind you - it's already too late for that - so go for it sweetie - have a ball, we're all hanging from your lips waiting for the next gems of enlightenment to roll out.

You might do well to remember these words - but please do read them carefully so you don't misunderstand them:

In American life you have all these different agendas, you have conflict all the time & we’re attempting to achieve harmony through conflict. It seems strange to say that but it's like an argument that you have with the intent to work something out, not an argument that you have with the intent to argue.
And that's what jazz music is.
They’re musicians, & they’re all standing on the bandstand, each one has their personality and their agenda. Invariably they’re gonna play something that you would not play. So you have to learn when to say a little something and when to get out of the way.
So you have that question of the integrity, the intent, the will to play together. That’s what jazz music is.
So you have yourself, your individual expression & then you have how you negotiate that expression within the context of that group.
It’s exactly like democracy.
Wynton Marsalis: Ken Burns - Jazz

He may have said this within a musical context but I think it applies extremely well to life in general and to this forum in particular.