THE DANCE

[lizzytysh]

I had two students in six years who stood out head and shoulders above the other hundreds in terms of literary and theatrical ability. Both were dyslexic, each has gone on to great success in his chosen field - one as a wrtiter, one as an actor.

Only two? Six years and hundreds of students? To what end was all of the "for your own good," hard-core, stiff-upper-lip, get-off-that-porch and run-with-the-big-dogs instruction ? Perhaps, there are factors beyond rigid correction and instruction that determine people's choices and bring them success. As there are any number of highly creative and successful people who have/have had dyslexia; perhaps, the way their world is processed can be given every bit as much credit for what they did with their lives... as much internal, as external, their influences.


~ Lizzy

[Kush]

...and so the world turns.

[lizzytysh]

I'm surprized [not] that you waited until now to make such a remark. I could've given you a far more appropos juncture for your throwaway comment, Kush.


~ Lizzy

[Diane]

Ta for clarifying, RP.

[Red Poppy]

Lizzie,
I have stated more than once that I DO NOT work in a poetry workshop. I work in the area of the short story and memoir.

My reference to mealy mouthed-ness, referred to anyone who sees agreement as always being better than criticism. It was not specific to you.

You write: "I find it very presumptuous on your part to presume that, that huge cookie-cutter box is one for everyone to be stuffed into."
I have no idea what that means.

Other than that everything you wrote was absolutely correct.
I am a charlatan, a philistine, I am cruel to people and cannot differentiate between writing and writer. I should never be allowed facilitate a workshop again.
I resign.

[Red Poppy]

I had two students in six years who stood out head and shoulders above the other hundreds in terms of literary and theatrical ability. Both were dyslexic, each has gone on to great success in his chosen field - one as a wrtiter, one as an actor.

Only two? Six years and hundreds of students? To what end was all of the "for your own good," hard-core, stiff-upper-lip, get-off-that-porch and run-with-the-big-dogs instruction ? Perhaps, there are factors beyond rigid correction and instruction that determine people's choices and bring them success. As there are any number of highly creative and successful people who have/have had dyslexia; perhaps, the way their world is processed can be given every bit as much credit for what they did with their lives... as much internal, as external, their influences.

Now who is being selective in their quotes Lizzy.
You omitted the sentence "In my years as a secondary teacher" which precedes the quote.
I was referring to the students I taught in a technical school through second level.
Those students chose many and varied careers.
Two went into the theatre/writing end of thearts.
Others went into music.
Others were mechanics, gravediggers, nurses.
I meet a large number of them regularly.
I number many of them among my friends.
I hope I never "instructed them rigidly."
Again, Lizzie, you confuse a genuine critical interest with negativity.
If I hadn't left that teaching job twenty seven years ago I'd resign immediately from that too.

[lizzytysh]

I don't know you Red Poppy, so I do not know how your time is divided. Past tense may be clear to you, but not at all to someone else. Including the "secondary" aspect wouldn't have made a difference in the way I understood your comment. There are secondary schools that have classes known as literature and music, each with their individual teachers, and address the issues we include here and with literature including poetry. The same as teachers having dual assignments, with math and history being taught by the same person, is common here; the 'arts' classes are not so out of the realm for being taught by the same person, either. As for negativity, please don't accuse me of anything along that line that you're unwilling to embrace for yourself.

Again, Lizzie, you confuse a genuine critical interest with negativity.

No, Red Poppy, I'm not confused about this at all.

My cookie-cutter box analogy relates to the reason people visit and contribute to the Member's Poetry section of the Forum and what they SHOULD expect in others' reponses because they came here and shared... and your premise that people write because they want to be published writers. That is the cookie-cutter box that you're trying to stuff everyone here in to.

Thanks for your clarification on the mealy-mouthedness; especially since I am not one who always sees agreement as better than constructive criticism.

As for your final paragraph, in that preceding posting, well... throwaway, so no need to respond to it in any serious way. Simply an inverse way of elevating yourself.


~ Lizzy

[Laura]

I've seen some serious overreactions to presumed [or feigned presumption of] criticism here, as well as in the Chatroom... being "picked on" and such.
~ Lizzy

Just one tiny (and belated) curiosity from my side. How did you see what happens in the chatroom, Lizzy, not having been there?
Laura

[lizzytysh]

I used to be there all the time, Laura... though I wasn't when whatever it was that happened to you took place. From what I read of it here, it sounded to be an actual "being picked on."


~ Lizzy

[Byron]

Aaaaaaaggghhhhhh!!!!!!!! somebody used the 'should' word!! Of all the words in the English language, I hate that word the most. To me, and I do mean ME, and nobody else at all, THAT word smacks of bullying, dictatorial correctness, use and abuse of power by one over another, finger pointing, unequivocal instructional-battering of one person (or a grouping) in telling another what TO DO.

I was taught in my childhood days at school to never use the word 'NICE,' because it describes absolutely 'buggerall' (Seeing as someone mentioned Dylan Thomas earlier, I thought I'd put a bit of him in here )

For me, I see a red mist before my eyes when I see or hear that someone 'SHOULD' do something.

I never use the word 'nice' and this is not a personal attack on the user of 'that' other word. Just remember that it isn't polite to point a finger at someone, and using the word 'should' is just that. (as far as I'm concerned anyway )

pax vobiscum

[lizzytysh]

I don't know what "pax vobiscum" means, Byron, but it sounds like there oughta be a bucket by the bed, just in case.

I'm not sure how far back you'll need to go to locate the usage of that all-but-forbidden word, but it was used here somewhere in that context. I liked Judith's substitute for it of "ought," which has more of a softer, preference feeling to it rather than the blatant directive that you're talking about.


~ Lizzy

[Byron]

"peace be with you." Part of the universal world wide Catholic liturgy. Latin, and sadly missed by some of us.



pox vobiscum, on the other hand, is something completely different.

[lizzytysh]

Well, no bucket needed, then . Thanks.

Some churches here are returning to it, with a great deal of consternation felt by some and an equally great deal of rightfulness felt by others. It certainly brought a beauty, mystery, and magic to the masses... both meanings.


~ Lizzy

[Red Poppy]

"As for your final paragraph, in that preceding posting, well... throwaway, so no need to respond to it in any serious way. Simply an inverse way of elevating yourself."

Lizzie, is that a paradox or a contradiction or simply an insult?
I couldn't decide .