leonardcohenforum.com

Just a shower of...................

Has anyone managed to track down a video link to Leonard performing Tonight Will be Fine??? I'm sure you're all wrapped up in the interweb thingy day and night searching for it.

I just think it would be fairer to Leonard if he was properly represented in this thread. I mean, think how he must feel. Eagerly checking in here every day and night to see how he is holding up in the poll. Feeling hard done by because Thompson has his very own video link, when all Leonard can hope for is that anyone interested in voting in this poll will have a copy of the song to hand, and, just maybe, a faded photo from an album cover to view.

Manna wrote:*warning: I don't use pathetic the way most people do.

Not acceptable Manna, if fact I could say this is a pathetic excuse for your lapse in erudite offerings to the dialogue on this thread.

Bird, Leonard needs no sticking up for on this board. Your position however needs shoring up. I suggest you try and squeeze a vote out of Manna.

Fancy a squeeze Manna?

Actually, I'm starting get a hankering for LC's version on "Live Songs," C&W ala his Buckskin Boys days.

It's a hoot!

Fred

a squeeze, yes, a vote, no.

I think one of Leonard's talents is for showing us something sad or otherwise unpleasant, but that he does it in such a way as to let go of it. I love the light Jew's harp in this, and the way the whistling is a little off pitch. I love the line, "if I've got to remember that's a fine memory." But you know, I didn't know the "if" was there until I heard TT sing it, and that really changes it. Leonard's version and Teddy's version let me see something from different places.

Bird wrote:On the student and teacher thing, the student may not necessarily have the genius or sense of originality of the teacher, and therefore may be bound or limited in their attempts to surpass the teacher.

Sure, yes. But then that wouldn't be a successful student-teacher relation. And I don't think it's an attempt to surpass, I think the student just synthesizes and applies what he knows. Are his lessons done?

never

...also, funny, I've come across the word erudite about 11 times in the past 2 days.

As in - er you dye it?

I'd have thought errr ~ you diet??

Manna wrote:a squeeze, yes, a vote, no.

I think one of Leonard's talents is for showing us something sad or otherwise unpleasant, but that he does it in such a way as to let go of it.

Well said. I like that. That's how I feel about his music/lyrics, but couldn't quite get my head around expressing it that clearly.

Not sure I agree with the teacher/student thing manna. Could, for instance, Van Gogh teach (if he was so inclined) a student, or even many students to be better and more original than himself at painting?? Or Leonardo Da Vinci for that matter? Or, dare I say, Leonard Cohen? You seem to imply that if a teacher fails to teach a student to become better than him/herself then they have failed as a teacher. What if the teacher possess genius? Can genius be taught?

I blame neither the teacher nor the student, but the relationship.

Da Vinci can't teach you to be original, or to be smart, or to be clever, or creative... But he can teach the techniques, the elements of design and composition, how to hold a paintbrush. He can teach you what he knows about paint and canvas and mixing colors. And when you have learned everything that Da Vinci has to teach, maybe you'll say, yeah, but if we toss some sand into that paint, and mix it together, we'll get a new texture. Let's play, let's see how it works.

If that relationship doesn't work, for whatever reason, Leo won't be able to teach, and you won't be able to learn. I don't know why; maybe you think he's nuts-o and dismiss his teachings, or maybe he thinks you're a strunze and dismisses you.

I originally threw that into this thread to see if it fit here between Cohen and Thompson. I don't know if the student has become the teacher. I don't think "becoming" the teacher necessarily means "surpassing" the teacher, so much as having learned enough to innovate.

Here is something that is true: The more you learn, the more you can learn.

Just as I thought, Leonard's winning. 'The truth will out' I say!

I think that's considered to be unfairly influencing the vote. Invigilator, please!

Oops!

...and Thompson is doing very well too I might add