Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

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Bill's Bar
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by Bill's Bar »

I agree, I don't see a problem with Bob's comments.
On the question of "connection" with the audience, I think Leonard certainly scores best there. However, last night for me ( and for my daughters) Bob sure gave one hell of a performance through his music. However, I do think it would have been nice for him to at least thank the band.....with or without the joke. :D :D
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Eskimo
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by Eskimo »

UrPal wrote: I'm reading it as him simply saying "hey, I'm a sixty something professional musician who's been writing and performing on perpetual tour for forty years and more. Going to see a live act, be it Leonard Cohen or anyone else, is a busman's holiday for me. Why would I? I know the recorded music. I know the man. There's nothing in it for me. If I go to anything "live" these days, it'll be the theatre or a classical gig. That's more likely to get me some creative spark for a song on my next LP".
....always risky trying to figure out what Bob means but I took this comment about LC just as UrPal did....as to Dylan's connection with his audience - Dylan has been on the road heading for another joint most of the time since 1988 as part of the Never-Ending Tour....for me this is the way he has chosen to give back to his fan base (some shows I have seen were better than others, but I have never felt he was just going through the motions during this period)....this summer, his US tour is a repeat of what he has done the last few years - a tour of minor league baseball stadiums in mainly "small town America" with general admission tickets, kids under 14 free if accompanied by adults....sharing the bill are Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp....another way he connects is the variability of his setlist (at one 3 night stand in my hometown a few years back, he changed the setlist almost entirely every night) and the insertion of the occasional rarity...different things work for different artists.....asked why he is still out working so hard, Bob answered this way in the 60 Minutes interview: "It goes back to that destiny thing. I mean, I made a bargain with it, you know, long time ago. And I'm holding up my end … to get where I am now," Asked with whom did he make the bargain: "With the chief commander. In this earth and in the world we can't see".
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amcgee
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by amcgee »

Hi

I went to see Bob Dylan in the O2 Pint arena in Dublin last night and he was absolute rubbish, couldn't understand a word he was singing(or trying to sing_) and couldn't recognise the songs. The band were poor also. Dylan didn't even acknowledge the audiance and never introduced the band, it was like as if we were not there... he also destroyed Blowing in the wind.

Maybe Bob needs to go to a Leonard Cohen gig and see how you should treat your fans and then he might get better reviews. I think his never ending tour should end, i certainly will not be going to see him again

ON a plus note, the new O2 arena in dublin is a brilliant venue and will be looking forward to seeing Cohen playing there in July. It will be a brilliant occasion as it is a venue that will suit him perfectly.

are you watching Dylan

amcgee
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lizzytysh
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by lizzytysh »

It seems to me that people are accepting and forgiving [not that forgiveness is needed... but fans sometimes seem to think it's their terrain to do so ;-) ] of their favourite performers from days gone by or as they age... and to highlight all they've brought to them through those years and focus on that with respect... when the performer makes their best, good faith effort to be there for the fans and give them their level best.

I look back and laugh affectionately at when we had a to-do here years back about whether Leonard had it in him... and, hence, should even try... to ever perform Live, again. The essence of my position was that I would still and absolutely give him my utmost respect, deep appreciation, and immeasurable gratitude, even if he had to hobble with a cane or be brought onstage with assistance and seated in an armchair, just to talk, even if only in a whisper. [Looking at the contrast with all that he's doing now, I can't help but laugh.] Inherent in that image, however, was that Leonard would be giving it his best and treating his audience with the utmost respect... as he's always done.

From the descriptions I'm reading and even with my seeing Dylan the last time I did, in New Orleans, it's just not been that way with Bob in these, more recent years. To feel invisible to the performer you've paid to see... or to be introduced to the accompanying musicians and see some appreciation expressed for them, or be granted the isolated opportunities to do it yourself, is simply not fair. [There was one time where I felt this was okay, and that was with Thelonious Monk, who remained oblivious to the already-only-sparsely-filled auditorium emptying even further, as his music was apparently unrelateable to many in attendance... by a long stretch, he's never been one to play for the 'masses' ;-) . It was a free, afternoon concert at the Ann Arbor Jazz Festival many years ago.] To not be able to even understand the songs the performers have made famous, however, is absurd. I was glad to see Bob at the Jazzfest in New Orleans because of my appreciation for him over the years and because he is and remains a legend. If I had to judge the performance itself, on the performance itself, well... there is nothing at all memorable about it to me now. I just know I saw him and he was wearing white. Without assistance, I had no idea what he was singing.

It's a quandary to me why he would want to spend his waning years in the industry in this way. There are some people who are simply 'studio performers' and there's nothing wrong with that. It seems Bob has become one, but refuses to take that route. What I heard [but have not been able to buy] of his more recent album, released a couple years ago, sounded excellent. Going on tour and dealing with audiences in this way, though, seems to at least border on exploiting his audiences... and that's never good. It seems that without Bob's good faith effort and respect for the people who are there, Live as well, right in front of him, he may continue to get poor reviews; whereas, if he handled it otherwise, at least the potential would be there for supportive, understanding, and compassionate ones. For me, even with all that's been said in all directions, I still have to weigh in on its simply being sad... and I would wish for better for Bob. All one needs to do is look and read about the stellar and lasting legacy Leonard has created and is leaving for himself 8) . It can only garner, as he is doing, deep respect.


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Evie B
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by Evie B »

A couple of days ago I watched the supposed bio film of Bob titled something like 'I'm not there' and I couldn't understand what on earth it was all about. Perhaps the academics amongst us can conjure up some interpretation of the events depicted, or those who know more about his life story, but personally I thought it was a load of rubbish. This doesn't reflect on Bob though, I have always enjoyed his music over the years. I am also very fond of the music he made when part of The Traveling Wilburys (think that's the novel way they spell the name), they all seemed to be having such fun and produced such excellent, foot-tapping music.
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burningviolin
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by burningviolin »

Despite all of the less than favourable reviews of his gigs he's still number 1 in the US!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8037386.stm

Read all about it at the BBC. :)
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ladydi
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by ladydi »

Evie B wrote: I am also very fond of the music he made when part of The Traveling Wilburys (think that's the novel way they spell the name), they all seemed to be having such fun and produced such excellent, foot-tapping music.
Hi Evie... I've loved most of Bob's music over the decades! Only been to one of his concerts so I'm not one to pass judgement but we were not impressed. Kept thinking something was wrong with the sound system but soon realized it was his "singing". It doesn't take away from his enormous talent but I would never go to another of his concerts. However, I LOVE The Traveling Wilburys! What an amazing group of awesome talent (each in their own right!). The songs were fun and egos seemed to be sublimated. Of course...that was then.

All the best,
Diana
ladydi
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by ladydi »

burningviolin wrote:Despite all of the less than favourable reviews of his gigs he's still number 1 in the US!
Sometimes we're gluttons for punishment ;-) . But it IS a brilliant album! Looks like Bob might be more interested in working with Sir Paul than in going to a LC concert :?

Diana
yopietro
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by yopietro »

After having read the complete Rolling Stone article, (and not just the excerpt about Dylan and Cohen), I don't think Dylan was being insulting to Leonard with what he said. Sure, he could have said what he said in a more diplomatic way. But I think what he was getting at is that he wouldn't go see singer-songwriters these days, because he's interested in picking up what he can from other genres and media (like classical concerts, art museums, etc). He's mining for ideas in other fields. And what Leonard does is in the same field that Dylan himself has been plying for decades.

Also, from the interview, you really get a sense of Dylan's reverence for the old country and blues artists. Not only for musicians from another time but for another time itself. Maybe Leonard's shows don't capture that spirit that Dylan reveres so much these days.

But to be fair to Dylan, Leonard's comments on seeing Dylan live, were on one hand gracious, but he did basically say that people were going out of a sense of nostalgia and to be in the presence of genius...not so much for the songs and music itself. Although there may be truth in that, that can be taken as a swipe on Dylan's live shows (which I do think have become problematic and are not giving nearly as much these days as Cohen's are)...
Eskimo
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by Eskimo »

Bill's Bar wrote:Am just back from the Bob Dylan concert in the O2 in Dublin, and I have to say it was probably the best Dylan concert I've been at.
amcgee wrote:I went to see Bob Dylan in the O2 Pint arena in Dublin last night and he was absolute rubbish, couldn't understand a word he was singing(or trying to sing_) and couldn't recognise the songs.

...I suppose these reviews aren't mutually exclusive in the strictest sense but it may be worth checking out the show...so here are a couple from 5/5 at the O2: Don't Think Twice and the first live performance of a song from the new album as liverpoolken notes - If You Ever Go To Houston - .....
Bill's Bar
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by Bill's Bar »

You're right Eskimo, I've seen Bob a fair few times, sometimes he barely shuffled on and off the stage. Tuesday night in Dublin was different. And I felt despite not speaking he gave good performance (the highlight for me was "Like a rolling stone"). Part of the enjoyment of a Dylan concert is trying to figure out which song he's mangling eh I mean singing :D :D since he keeps changing the tunes. :D
2008: Dublin 14/6, Lucca 27/7,Munich 6/10, Bournemouth 11/11, London 13/11 ,Paris 24/11.
2009: Quebec 21/5, Ottawa 26/5, Dublin 19/7,Venice 3/8, Barcelona 21/9, Nashville 5/11, St.Louis 7/11, San Jose 13/11
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amcgee
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by amcgee »

Hi
At the end of the day, its only a matter of opinion, i have seen Bob Dylan 5 times and i reckon only 2 of those concerts were good.

I took a listen to the Don't think twice you tube song from tuesday night and his voice sounds dreadful, i have heard him play that song 4 times(he didn't play it on wednesday)and he played and sang it better previously.
Dylan just can't sing anymore, the new song is brilliant though and suits his vocal range better.
I do hate criticising a legend, but i do think he should just stop touring or at least reduce the amount of concerts he performs and therefore the concerts he does perform will be better.

being a small bit critical, if Wednesdays gig was the best Dylan gig a person was at, i would have hated to be at the previous ones...but thats my opinion though..
whenever i go to a Dylan concert my expectations is always low, i am just happy to be in the same building as a legend, but as few irish papers did point out yesterday, that hard dylan fan would claim it was agood concert if Dylan banged two tins together for 2 hours....

Leonard Cohen is streets ahead in terms of performance and appreciation of his fans

amcgee
Eskimo
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by Eskimo »

amcgee wrote:...as a few irish papers did point out yesterday, that hard dylan fan would claim it was a good concert if Dylan banged two tins together for 2 hours....
...even better though is seeing Bob pick up the guitar again - as he does here, performing Man In the Long Black Coat in Dublin...
roderickslater
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by roderickslater »

Dylan in Glasgow - we loved him because of what he once was, not because of his performance on the night. Leonard in Glasgow last November - new, fresh, inventive, creative, linked all his past songs with a more upbeat present, dynamic, humorous, full of life. The best concert ever. Bob, go and see Leonard, you've a lot to learn.
MaryB
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Re: Dylan is asked about seeing Cohen in concert...

Post by MaryB »

Watching/listening to the YouTube videos on the links provided here (thank you eskimo), it is so apparent that Dylan and his band do not have the quality, precision or finesse of LC and company. LC also has a reverence for words and this comes across in all his performances. It is never 'hit or miss'. Someone who has been touring as long as Dylan, should have it down to a 'T'.

Kindest regards,
Mary
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