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Manna wrote:Axel,
If you believe it's not a decision one can make for another, then it's possible to be pro-choice for the sake of others, but to be personally against abortion for your own life.

Of course. I just haven't seen anyone advocate that particular point of view before.
So one believes that it is immoral to "kill a child," yet one respects another person's right to do that? Curious.

I think that to be able to maintain such a position, one is not against abortion. It's just something one would not like to do, personally.
Like abstinence from alcohol, but with a tolerance for other's indulgence.

Axel, that is exactly what pro-choice (rather than pro-abortion) means. Each person chooses what is right for them in their given circumstances. In situations where pregnancy is not a cause for celebration the choice is incredibly difficult no matter what you believe or what you decide.

I wish for a abortion-free world, where all women have stable supportive relationships, economic security, complete physical, mental and emotional well-being, affordable health services and ready access to birth control no matter how young they are or what religion they belong to.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I don't weep over aborted would-be-children, as I think there are more than enough people in the world. I mean we'll be nine billion people by 2050. As much as my clock is ticking to have children of my own, I find the idea of adopting orfans and the like to be more appealing, rationally speaking.

Funny but I always thought of this lyric in a more romantic sense. E.g. when two people meet they may have children and having children together is a great celebration of love. I thought of the lyric in terms of the possibilites between two people in love. I never took any meaning to do with abortion from this.

Ah, yes ... I see what you mean, Joney. When I imagine it, I imagine in the reincarnation sense of how we choose our parents so as to continue in our lessons. I imagine a child wanting to be born to two particular people and 'saying,' "Oh, please... make love and become pregnant with me." It's a lovely picture.


~ Lizzy

"Oh, please... make love and become pregnant with me."

That's exactly what I took the lyric to mean Lizzy.

That's exactly what I took the lyric to mean Lizzy.

Thanks ... and one of the things you are going to find over and delightfully over, Joney, is that Leonard's lyrics come in multi layers and rich brocades of meaning. "Doors and windows" you will hear/read him say about them... songs "to do dishes by;" yet, songs that are "written to last 30 years" like a "Volkswagen" ~ so, he's off by at least 70 years... minor mathematics . You're going to fall more and more deeply in love with Leonard's lyrics.


~ Lizzy

You lost me at Volkswagen.

Hi Axel ~

It's a quote whose exactness I don't have committed to memory, just the essence and meaning of it. In other words, constructed with the same level of quality that VWs are... VWs have been known for their excellence in construction and because of that, they are built to last... at least 30 years. As the years have changed and so many new vehicles made, this reference may not be so obvious for a younger person. When Leonard made it, however, it was very clear. The desire for VWs has been outdistanced by that for SUVs and other type vehicles for reasons beyond their mechanical endurance... however, you can still see little VW Bugs out there running as well as ever.


~ Lizzy

Ah, ok.

It might make more sense to a Scandinavian to know that the quote is usually about Volvos, in interviews like this or this... (links courtesy of Jarkko's and Marie's sites, respectively)...

Tim

The espresso interview was pure gold!

Yes, Axel, the Volvo would be an appropriate counterpart. Thanks, Tim.


~ Lizzy

Don't get me wrong, I know what a VW is. I just couldn't make sense out of the post, is all.

Hi Axel ~

Yes, I figured you knew what a VW is ... I just didn't know if you realized that over here, for years, it has been understood as representing something of quality, built to last. With Tim's posting, it sounded like In Scandinavia and Europe, the Volvo must hold that place.


~ Lizzy