Little Girl

[Cate]

Eek - no ..no.. George do NOT eat your own poo - it's just full of germs.

Is that really what you read from what I wrote - that's a bit scary.

Could you please look more deeply at the meaning of my Gorilla story

Anyways - I'm thinking you're a bit strange in not such a good way ... so ..good luck with the poem thing or the getting negative attention thing.

Cate

[George.Wright]

Red Poppy I did not realise you were a man, you were behaving like a woman and have actually been giving me lots of attention in your detailed critique. Anyways, you are very rude in your written words, for a so called professional writer. Cate, there is deep meaning in every actions, but I understood your words, again not very welcoming or nice. As for the other little girls, they continue to look at the world with utter despise....

Georges.

[lizzytysh]

Hi George ~

I have no idea what's gone on in your life since we were last communicating. However, this is my overall take on this writing and the exchanges.

You have written something that is offensive. You are saying that this was your intent ~ to be offensive/to shock [one and the same in this circumstance]. People have reacted to the offensiveness. You have been trying to turn their reactions back on them, as though they are the offensive ones... by offending you.

It's a Pandora's Box that you've opened with this highly-offensive piece. WHY would you want to shock? WHY would you be offended at some of the things that might naturally get said when people ARE shocked? You are the one who wrote it, after all, with that supposed intent.

Red Poppy wasn't acting like a woman, at all. As far as I'm concerned, you've been fortunate for your piece to have gotten any 'literary' type reaction, at all. From my reading of it, it's rubbish... its content and its presentation. Because his final comment is returned to you, in the way that this thread has meandered as the result of your offensive piece of writing, does not mean that he did not respond to you as a man and professionally. The points he makes are absolutely valid.

To say to others that they've shown their true colours to have reacted as they did makes me wonder "What about your true colours, George?" You may now say that I've shown mine... however, molesting a child and blaming the victim couldn't be any more offensive. Men who do this get assaulted, if not killed, in prison... because so many of them were molested as children; to the extent, that there's become an associated relationship between that and later criminal behaviour. You've chosen to take what Cate said in relating what's actually funny or not... and the reactions of others to it being funny. This piece has absolutely no artistic merit that I can see.

There's nothing funny in your piece. Your pointing your finger at others is inappropriate in this context, George. You may look at the world with utter despise... but you cannot put that perspective onto others whom you do not know. This writing has a strong element of perversion that is offensive. Period.


~ Lizzy

[blonde madonna]

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[Cate]

Dear Cate, Red Poppy and Lizzy I am still striving to have your tolerance and generosity of spirit. With no trace of irony I salute you.

I was at the zoo the other day and this gorilla ate its own feces and then to make matters worse regurgitated it back into its hands, examined it and then re-ate it.

However, I am very concerned about this poor gorilla. Cate, is there anything we can do to help him?

BM

Thanks B.M., but I think you've shown a good example of my tolerance lost.
I re-read the poem, trying to figure out what he thought was funny and realized it was probably our reactions that were funny to him.

As for the poor gorilla - I don't know what could be done. I suppose the zoo will have to think of some type of alternative entertainment, it might be hard to compete with poo though.

Cate

[George.Wright]

Well Cate,
Your pre occupation with the gorillas shows a serious misunderstanding of your Darwin past. He may be eating the faeces but you have gained nothing like wisdom in the process.
Georges.

[blonde madonna]

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[Cate]

As for the poor gorilla - I don't know what could be done. I suppose the zoo will have to think of some type of alternative entertainment, it might be hard to compete with poo though.

Seriously Cate, gorillas are our closest living relatives after chimpanzee and their DNA is nearly a 98 % match. It is like watching a human eat poo. Was there nothing else to eat, they spend most of their time eating, or was he bored?

You could contact the Toronto Zoo directly or a British organisation called Born Free has a Zoo Check program you can report your concerns for an animal to and they will follow it up.

http://www.bornfree.org.uk/campaigns/zo ... ints-form/

George, 'wise' monkeys like you will always be here to remind us of our Darwinian past.

BM

Hi Blond Madonna – I know I gave you a lighthearted answer, I don’t really like to think about this type of thing on the weekend, but I was being sincere.

I know eating feces sounds gross to you, but it isn’t to a gorilla – it’s just something they do. They even do it in the wild. To a gorilla this is entertaining and apparently tasty. Now you might be thinking – they shouldn’t let them, but I can tell you this type of behaviour is very difficult to change and unless there is a health concern, they shouldn’t try. (Remember we are talking about gorillas not humans - there are humans that do this and it is a health concern.)

The enclosures at the zoo are very large. The indoor one features a very large hill, grass, trees lots of activities including food that is hidden for the gorilla’s to forage. Don’t get me wrong, I think free is better, but I do think they’ve done a fairly good job of mimicking what wild gorilla’s like.

Here is a list of some of the conservation projects that are zoo is currently involved in, I don’t think it includes re-introduction programs they’ve been part of in the past.

http://www.torontozoo.com/Conservation/

Okay, gotten very far away from poem lets see if I can bring it back a little.

A couple of years ago, we were talking to one of the gorilla keepers there. She was telling us about an issue they were having. It seems that Charles, the male Gorilla was not romantically interested in one of the troops females. They had made a mistake and introduced the female at to young of an age. Although Charles accepted her into his family he seemed to have difficulty thinking of her in a ‘wife’ like way.

[Cate]

okay one last monkey thing

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rN7lWMSHJGY

[blonde madonna]

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[~greg]

It was indeed a style meant to shock and it looks like it has. Excellent.
Georges.

But mierda means shit. Not shock.
And there is nothing shocking in Georges' writing.
Just the wonder why it appears in a Leonard Cohen forum.

When he says it's meant to shock, he means to suggest
that he is just seeking attention, like a kid.
Which is supposed to create the impression that
he really is just a kid, at heart.
And not the defeated old man he really is.

He is not seeking attention because he has something to say.
He is simply trying to bend our ears in order to bitch into them
about the direction his life is taking. And while he actually seems
to be ecouraged by the negative feedback, this is not to be
confused with the meglomania of the adolescent.
It's to be associated rather with with the auto-pilot behavior
of the alcoholic. Bowie's song "Joe The Lion" should
remind everyone of exactly what kind of character
we are dealing with here.

~~
Animals sometimes do eat their own excrement
in a confused effort to hide it, when it would
reveal things about their health and emotional state
that would be dangerous for them to reveal.

From his own autobiography,
(- at http://allpoetry.com/Georges )
Georges is a 51 year old man, divorced, with two daughters,
aged 13 and 17, who just got himself

a large black Triumph Speed Triple Motorbike

In other words, Georges is experiencing what used to be called "a midlife crisis ".
(see http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/15/ ... snmind.php
- Is it a midlife crisis or a 'jerk with a meltdown'?)

I don't criticize that site (allpoetry.com) where Georges is proud to be "published."
It is no doubt a useful place for kids. And a fun place for old men who get
an inexplicable kick out of impressing kids. ("like hypnotizing chickens").
But the site is ad-sponsored! (You can avoid the ads if you opt-in
for one of the "higher" membership grades - starting at 5.95/month. )
In other words, it's a feel good support group vanity stroking place.
Not a workshop.

Compare the Quantcast ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantcast ) summaries -

Allpoetry.com is a top 10,000 site that reaches over 172K U.S. monthly people.
The site caters to a more African American, teen, more female audience.
The typical visitor frequents gaiaonline.com and visits gamefaqs.com.
http://www.quantcast.com/allpoetry.com

leonardcohenforum.com
This site reaches approximately 11,228 U.S. monthly people.
The site is popular among a very slightly male biased, more educated, 50+ audience.
http://www.quantcast.com/leonardcohenforum.com

Georges can not understand or accept that what may impress
(-or what seems to him to impress) a more African American teen female
audience, who frequents http://gaiaonline.com/ and
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ , does not impress
"a very slightly male biased, more educated, 50+ audience."
And so he soldiers on here, trying to prove that wrong.

~~~

"Controversial" threads like this are attractive as being
low-hanging-junk-food-fruit. It takes very little thought
or effort on our part to respond to the catch-phrases
and trigger words in these threads, with the opinions
that we already happen to have about things.

People, here, somehow do manage to make these threads
more interesting than they intrinsically are. But here's
the thing: People tend to post posts at a definite
average rate per week. Which means that the more
we respond to these empty calorie threads,
the less we respond to the more deserving threads.

Our silence on those other threads may be taken
to be implicit approval of them. Or that's the way
I mean it. But it's a pity, because there are writers,
like Cate and Manna for example, who are quietly,
steadily, improving their talents, and who therefore
very much more deserve our attention.

Georges' self-therapy writing is not poetry.
And neither will it ever result in any improvement
in the quality of his character. It is pure self-indulgent
day-dreaming on his part.

And as such it may really be harmless, in the sense that
the implicit threats in it are purely alcoholic-fueled day-dreaming
and not to be taken seriously. But it is not harmless, in so far
as it steals attention away from the others who are so much
more deserving of it.

Joe the Lion - David Bowie

Joe the lion
Went to the bar
A couple of drinks on the house an' he said
"Tell you who you are if you nail me to my car"

Boy
Thanks for hesitating
This is the kiss off

Boy
Thanks for hesitating
You'll never know the real story
Just a couple of dreams
You get up and sleep

You can buy god it's Monday
Slither down the greasy pipe
So far so good no one saw you
Hobble over any freeway
You will be like your dreams tonight

You get up and sleep
You get up and sleep
Joe the lion
Made of iron

Joe the lion
Went to the bar
A couple of drinks on the house an' he was
A fortune teller he said
"Nail me to my car and I'll tell you who you are"

Joe the lion, yeah yeah
Went to the bar, yeah yeah
A couple of dreams and he was
A fortune teller he said
"Nail me to my car tell you who you are"

You get up and sleep
The wind blows on your check
The day laughs in your face
Guess you'll buy a gun
You'll buy it secondhand
You'll get up and sleep

Joe the lion made of iron (repeat ad inf.)

I love that song.
I knew many people just like Joe the Lion.

I used to be a person just like Joe the Lion.

May everyone grow up. Sooner rather than later.

[George.Wright]

Goodness Greg,
Can I have a bit of your self realised and perfect halo? It will shine like a beacon of ego in the lake of fire where you will further cast judgements on many others. Your sainthood is certainly not to help anyone on their way, go read on and judge others but not, please not, yourself. It's much easier diverting blame and throwing stones. You might even raise a smile for your ego.

Georges.

[lonndubh]

Dont grow up too fast Georges.
Boogie St can be boring most of the time but then it has its moments

[George.Wright]

Lonndubh,
I love Boogie St but to read Greg, I am sitting on a cardboard box drinking meths. All this from someone who analysises you in the cyberspace of perfection. What skeletons has Greg in his closet? Maybe he is the Kellog's cereal killer?

Georges.

[blonde madonna]

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