But isn't God in the poorest child now suffering right now from starvation or disease, as well as in you and me? Isn't God in Bush, Olmert, and Osama bin Laden? So what are We going to DO about it...
What does the Sermon on the Mount say we should do about it? It's like a fine gold Swiss watch, every concept there! The Man DID it! He DID it!
We can all SEE how it's gonna work, we can all FEEL how right it is, we've heard it through masters of Words from Leonard Cohen to Mick Jagger to John Lennon to George Frederick Handel.
What are we going to DO... what are we going to DO?
God is starving to death in Africa, Asia, and all around the world war is being waged against Him - by God.
Welcome to Hellfire, BTW... Shalom..
Mornin Casey..... I do not believe that God is 'in' You and I or Leonard - but - believe God 'is' you and I and Leonard. I believe that our Reality is created with our thoughts, feelings, emotions and most importantly Beliefs - change your beliefs and the world literally changes around you (lucid dreamers are well aware of this - when we dream our thoughts are instantly materialized - when it 'appears' that we are awake our thoughts are materialized in exactly the same way - there is just a delay involved. This is a shared universal dream - one where we feel hunger and pain - but a dream none the less) - Your thoughts are as alive as the wind blowing around the leaves in a tree, as alive as the flowers in a garden. Your thoughts have a fundamental effect on all that is around you - they are not separate from me - sitting here in NJ or separate from the clouds in the sky. Our conscious mind has taught itself to block out inner knowledge - that very inner knowledge is our very spirit - and our spirit can indeed 'help' but we are not listening. Put no one's words above your own inner knowledge and Understating. Sometimes the answers to the most difficult questions are the more simple answers - Please try to be kind to everyone you meet - even if they are not kind to you... a difficult thing to do - I have failed many times - but - it must be undertaken. Kindness, Love, Peace and forgiveness - may they guide us in all that we do....
Shalom right back at ya my Brother..
johnlakeart.com
"There is a crack, a crack in everything... that's how the light gets in" - Leonard Cohen
You're right, Cate! That was a nice way to spend some time - perusing the lovely art of john m lake - welcome to the forum John! - whilst listening to Mat's link. Thanks all!
john.m.lake wrote:Please try to be kind to everyone you meet - even if they are not kind to you... a difficult thing to do - I have failed many times - but - it must be undertaken. Kindness, Love, Peace and forgiveness - may they guide us in all that we do....
Shalom right back at ya my Brother.. [/color]
Love is not self-taught ignorance of suffering. Real Peace does not come from our inner peace, but our outer peace. Kindness must be consistently universal, not just to those whom we meet. Is it kind to smile at the woman stepping in front of the speeding bus?
I don't think that's kind... I think she would appreciate being jerked out of its path more. Am I being unkind to you, John? I'm sorry, but I'm very tired of watching people starve and die. Any unkindness on my part while attempting to point out the suffering we're responsible for is not intentional.
If Leonard is God then God is also IN Leonard. Symantics don't feed children or end wars.
Their suffering is real, our unkindness, our killing them by proxy, our hatred and our greed for more and our fears that we camoflouge as helplessness to do anything, all these are the very proof of God we require.
Now you appear to know some things about quarks... And I'm a computer programmer, we can be realistic.
I'll bet we can say it together: "2+2=4". New Jersey is covered under "We the People" too.
I saw three clouds perfectly shaped in the letters "I AM" over the little town where I normally live... Hey, my wife saw them too. As the "M" morphed into an infinity symbol with two square-like shapes in the center of each loop, I said it myself: "2+2=4".
You have "Anthem" on your copy of the Essential LC. It also says: "2+2=4". Don't fight the cracks...
With love,
Casey
Last edited by Casey Butler on Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diane: You're right, Cate! That was a nice way to spend some time - perusing the lovely art of john m lake - welcome to the forum John! - whilst listening to Mat's link. Thanks all!
You're right, Cate! That was a nice way to spend some time - perusing the lovely art of john m lake - welcome to the forum John! - whilst listening to Mat's link. Thanks all!
Hi Diane - Thank you for the welcome... and I'm happy that you like my art : )
- John
johnlakeart.com
"There is a crack, a crack in everything... that's how the light gets in" - Leonard Cohen
Casey: Love is not self-taught ignorance of suffering. Real Peace does not come from our inner peace, but our outer peace. Kindness must be consistently universal, not just to those whom we meet. Is it kind to smile at the woman stepping in front of the speeding bus?
I don't think that's kind... I think she would appreciate being jerked out of its path more. Am I being unkind to you, John? I'm sorry, but I'm very tired of watching people starve and die. Any unkindness on my part while attempting to point out the suffering we're responsible for is not intentional.
If Leonard is God then God is also IN Leonard. Symantics don't feed children or end wars.
Their suffering is real, our unkindness, our killing them by proxy, our hatred and our greed for more and our fears that we camoflouge as helplessness to do anything, all these are the very proof of God we require.
Now you appear to know somethings about quarks... And I'm a computer programmer, we can be realistic.
I'll bet we can say it together: "2+2=4". New Jersey is covered under "We the People" too.
I saw three clouds perfectly shaped in the letters "I AM" over the little town where I normally live... Hey, my wife saw them too. As the "M" morphed into an infinity symbol with two square-like shapes in the center of each loop, I said it myself: "2+2=4".
You have "Anthem" on your copy of the Essential LC. It also says: "2+2=4". Don't fight the cracks...
With love,
Casey
Hi Casey....
We are not here to cry about the miseries of the human condition - BUT - to 'change' them to be more to our liking – again - The human race has taught the conscious mind to accept only data coming from the outside world... and has set up walls against inner knowledge. We are the spirit made flesh - but - the spirit 'is' that very inner knowledge and understanding that has been blocked out. The flesh creates it's reality with it's beliefs... the spirit helps bring about this reality in the outside world... the spirit knows the outcome of these beliefs and can indeed 'help' - but - the human race has largely cut itself off from this inner knowledge. If this knowledge was available to more - then many of the atrocities you see in the world today would not occur.
Again...I believe... God is All That Is - there is nothing outside. The third trumpet has sounded... metaphorically speaking of course. Judgement is indeed upon us.... you can feel it in the air. We are living in a very pivotal time in human history. We have great theological differences that have led to war and unfortunately, will continue to do so.... The Earth is very small... We can not continue to overpopulate and use up all of our natural resources without suffering the grave consequences. In our brief existence on this planet we have severally changed the weather patterns. If we do not take care of her.. Mother Earth will not be able to continue to care for us.. We are one in the same. The God I speak of has no name, does not want to be worshiped and praised. We are all part of this God.. so, this judgement is coming directly from US... and I fear we do not like what we see.
johnlakeart.com
"There is a crack, a crack in everything... that's how the light gets in" - Leonard Cohen
john.m.lake wrote:The God I speak of has no name, does not want to be worshiped and praised. We are all part of this God.. so, this judgement is coming directly from US... and I fear we do not like what we see.[/color]
Be sure to inform the "little Jew who wrote the Bible" about this, he should know before he spreads more rumors.
Seriously, John, you're killing me here, are you aware we have declared perpetual war against revolutionaries just like ourselves... and we have the technology and motivation to wage perpetual war... and... sigh, like I said, we can't talk about what Leonard Cohen sings about for some reason. Miracles everywhere.
We can't all be Buddhas just yet. So I must remain a Bodhisattva until we are all Buddhas together...
I would never disparage you, you are certain to attain Buddhahood!
Casey: Be sure to inform the "little Jew who wrote the Bible" about this, he should know before he spreads more rumors.
Seriously, John, you're killing me here, are you aware we have declared perpetual war against revolutionaries just like ourselves... and we have the technology and motivation to wage perpetual war... and... sigh, like I said, we can't talk about what Leonard Cohen sings about for some reason. Miracles everywhere.
We can't all be Buddhas just yet. So I must remain a Bodhisattva until we are all Buddhas together...
I have never studied Buddhism myself - my belief system is My interpretation of 'Everything' I have learned in my 40 years - Plus - And 'Foremost' - My Inner Knowledge and Understanding... What I feel to be Right and True.... Information directly from God.. For I am 'Part' of God... But no more than you.
I named this thread 'The word and the voice of God' because when I listen to Leonard that is exactly what I hear. Now - there are many beliefs out there as to exactly what God actually 'is' so.. saying such a thing can be very confusing. What Jimbo said in an earlier post works for me - A prophet - a true prophet.... And one that I will gladly listen to for the remainder of my days.
I'm out.. have a good night.
johnlakeart.com
"There is a crack, a crack in everything... that's how the light gets in" - Leonard Cohen
I never studied Buddhism either, but I read the Lotus Sutra all the time. Imagine how many religions people could make from Leonard Cohen's poetry. We do the same thing with all of God's poetry.
Your days may last very much longer than you expect. Think Quarks.
I'm honored to know you, John... It's all sooo cool, so un-articulatable in plain language. I'll listen to Leonard Cohen with you.
Casey:I never studied Buddhism either, but I read the Lotus Sutra all the time. Imagine how many religions people could make from Leonard Cohen's poetry. We do the same thing with all of God's poetry.
Your days may last very much longer than you expect. Think Quarks.
I'm honored to know you, John... It's all sooo cool, so un-articulatable in plain language. I'll listen to Leonard Cohen with you.
Casey
Thanks Casey - right back at ya my friend. Enjoy your day!
johnlakeart.com
"There is a crack, a crack in everything... that's how the light gets in" - Leonard Cohen
Casey:I never studied Buddhism either, but I read the Lotus Sutra all the time. Imagine how many religions people could make from Leonard Cohen's poetry. We do the same thing with all of God's poetry.
Your days may last very much longer than you expect. Think Quarks.
I'm honored to know you, John... It's all sooo cool, so un-articulatable in plain language. I'll listen to Leonard Cohen with you.
Casey
Thanks Casey - right back at ya my friend. Enjoy your day!
I greet you from the other side
Of sorrow and despair
With a love so vast and shattered
It will reach you everywhere
And I sing this for the captain
Whose ship has not been built
For the mother in confusion
Her cradle still unfilled
For the heart with no companion
For the soul without a king
For the prima ballerina
Who cannot dance to anything
Through the days of shame that are coming
Through the nights of wild distress
Tho' your promise count for nothing
You must keep it nonetheless
You must keep it for the captain
Whose ship has not been built
For the mother in confusion
Her cradle still unfilled
I've just read this thread with interest, and hope you don't mind if I comment on the dialogue briefly. Actually this thread touches on some of the issues that were discussed recently in the lengthy "God - A Ridiculous Concept" thread (now towards the end of the first page of the Everything Else Section).
Personally, I find it difficult to take when God is talked about as a concept that is "out there" and I also find it equally difficult when God is generalised as being each and every one of us and everything in existence.
The way I understand it is that God is the Divine Source of all things and that we all have a spark of the divine within us. The goal being to connect with our divine spark and ultimately to return to the source. This idea is common in such teachings as those of Gnosticism and Neo-Platonism, and possibly influenced Jewish Kabbalism.
The Gnostics saw Jesus as a teacher whose role was to help us re-connect with the divine spark within us. One saying of Jesus that often gets overlooked is his saying "ye are all gods". Indeed, Leonard's work can take us to a still place where such things can be contemplated - especially since he uses Biblical imagery from both the Judeaic and Christian traditions. Therefore, there is indeed a relevance to John's original statement, here.
Jesus was quoting David, Psalm 82. David is paraphrasing God as saying:
"I have said, Ye (are) gods; and all of you (are) children of the most High."
...Which in Genesis actually reads:
"Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil..."
So, Biblically, Qur'aniclly, and Sutra-ly, in God's eyes we are indeed gods, knowing good and evil. Unlike God, we are learning the difference between the two.
The garden story can hardly be characterized as a "fall", rather we became as God, we became sentient - God made us self-aware.
And the way it was set up in the story, we chose to be self-aware.
Jesus taught that good does not resist evil, making it impossible for evil to prevail, eventually making all good. As should be obvious to all at this point in our history, God Himself does not resist evil. As Jesus said, God sends His rain on the good and the evil, the just and the unjust.
"God" of course, means "good". God's other name, "I AM THAT I AM", talks about who when we say it?
It is Genius at work, a Mind that knows us so well that we talk about ourselves without even knowing it. It's our wrath that brings about disaster, our anger that brings down empires, our jealousy that blocks the healing of earth from the God of good described at the heart of nearly all religions.
It is because of this Genius that in our mono-theistic religions we worship ourselves without even realizing it.
We are currently seeing the fruits of our ways. Sitting on our wealth and our valued properties, we identify others (rarely ourselves) as evil and resist by force, we judge them, imprison them, kill them, etc... creating ever more chaos, resentment, and violence along the way.
So there are two Gods, as it metaphorically illustrates in Revelation. One is blood-red and surrounded by the 24 prophets of the Bible, and is the combined Spirit of mankind as He wreaks vengeance on Himself in search of the True God.
The True God is characterized in Revelation as sitting on a "great white throne", and from whose face everything in heaven and earth flees.
The story of Jesus is the Truth of the second God who appears in Revelation, the God who would die for us rather than resist our evil towards Him.
Revelation is more Genius, there is a blaze of Light in every Word... ALL of the prophets, Muhammad and Buddha included, with their Oliver Stone-esque dark language interpretable through David's "secret chord" of the Psalms.
Spiritual Words of God, the kind Leonard Cohen delivers so wonderfully.
One of the most important sentences ever written in human history: "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
The "sword" of all scriptures has two edges, the literal and the metaphorical, the holy and the broken. The True God gets His message to us via the metaphorical, through the prophets. We will hear it when we have nowhere else to go. [Ie. "Only drowning men can see him..."]
What are the odds that John would describe a city 1500 hundred miles square as the "New Jarusalem", when the heart of the earth, its inner iron core, is also 1500 miles in diameter?
The Great Spirit is, I can't explain Him, but I can hear Him clearly in the words of people beginning from 3300 years ago. People whose Words and actions eventually created me and you and the circumstances we have been born into...
Listeners to Leonard Cohen are trained in interpretation of metaphor. It would be awesome to discuss the various metaphors produced in these scriptures with others...
For example, Jesus quoted the prophet as follows:
"All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."
Now you find where that's written, it says:
"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
Which God did the smiting, and which God told us about it before it happened...
We were taught the story as little ones, a story we would not have heard had the Sheperd not been smitten.
We can hear it today. Oh, give it another chance please... Which God will shorten the time?
Not wishing to offend anyone by daring to discuss stuff most people - including me a while ago - have become burnt out on... But it's what Leonard Cohen is about, according to his Words.
Listeners to Leonard Cohen are trained in interpretation of metaphor. It would be awesome to discuss the various metaphors produced in these scriptures with others...
Casey Butler
Casey, we get into those discussions on the Book of Mercy threads. Click this link >>> (viewforum.php?f=10) Come and throw in your 2 bob's worth.
Matj
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
Thanks Casey and John E... Good thought provoking reading first thing in the morning.
Just some thoughts on Our Friend Jesus.....
I believe the majority of the Jewish people are correct – Jesus was not the ‘Savior’ not the ‘Prophet’ they were waiting for – Jesus was not – is not, Yahweh..
THIS IS YAHWEH!!
'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)
Jesus Christ… Would utter no such 'nonsense'.. for it would go against all of his teachings. I believe that Jesus was something entirely different – A partial manifestation of God.. that while on this plane of existence had the same frailties that all human beings possess – BUT – 'not' the God in the OT.
If Christians believe that Jesus is the God of the OT – Yahweh – then they must also believe that at one time Jesus thought it OK to brutally kill one another for working the Sabbath or being disrespectful to their parents – I reject this belief outright.. for if this was in fact Jesus.. then he brought no enlightenment.. regardless of what came later.
I only say this for consideration.. For the battle to come will be against Yahweh and Allah..and their followers - May the light of the Father shine upon them, and Bless them, and keep them from harm. The battle of Man vs. Man is the battle of God vs. God. According to the Hadith… The Muslim Judgment day will not arrive until Jews are hiding behind Rocks and Trees – and those very Rocks and trees will call out to Muslims and say Here, behind me, a Jew is hiding, Come kill them Muslim! The coming battle has been written in the sand – written in the wind.
Christians (OT only) and Jews and Muslims can read the violence in their holy books and not act upon it – however – in doing so they are not fully listening to their God. It is the followers that fully listen to their God (If their God teaches violence AT ALL) we are to be concerned with.. for these Gods preach mixed messages to their children… which is a shameful crime indeed!
johnlakeart.com
"There is a crack, a crack in everything... that's how the light gets in" - Leonard Cohen
