One Night Stand

[mickey_one]

And well done on avoiding the point of my last post.

sorry, I didn't notice there was one.

[lizzytysh]

Hi Michael ~

Your displacement comment isn't accurate. I would feel exactly the same regarding my comments on Jimbo's piece even if I had never heard of the poetry comp, much less entered it, and received no comments, even after my request for some. I am disappointed, though, you're right. Maybe even a little hurt. They are two separate issues, though; yet, they are issues which converge in light of the immediate situation.

I'm not "mothering Jimbo," but am making overall comments, in the context of Jimbo's piece. There are no claims nor implications of ownership of this section; but the presumptuousness of why people post here are inclusive in my comments. Given the overall ~ I mean over the years ~ nature of offerings in this section, if a presumption of purpose for putting something here is to be made, at all, I feel it's more reasonable to presume that the poster is simply sharing, unless they request a critique or critical comments or constructive feedback. If there only WERE a box to check ! Not everyone thinks to comment as to whether they do or don't want critiqueing. Unless someone is more clearly practiced in writing poetry, and don't ask for it, and depending on the nature of the piece, my presumption would be that they're placing it here for the simple reason of sharing. I could be wrong in that. As you'll recall, this section was created in response to the multiple requests by Georges that a section be created for the sharing of the writing of members. An online poetry workshop wasn't part of the initial lay of the land.


~ Lizzy

[mickey_one]

Hi Michael ~

Your displacement comment isn't accurate. I would feel exactly the same regarding my comments on Jimbo's piece even if I had never heard of the poetry comp, much less entered it, and received no comments, even after my request for some. I am disappointed, though, you're right. Maybe even a little hurt. They are two separate issues, though; yet, they are issues which converge in light of the immediate situation.

I'm not "mothering Jimbo," but am making overall comments, in the context of Jimbo's piece. There are no claims nor implications of ownership of this section; but the presumptuousness of why people post here are inclusive in my comments. Given the overall ~ I mean over the years ~ nature of offerings in this section, if a presumption of purpose for putting something here is to be made, at all, I feel it's more reasonable to make one that the poster is simply sharing, unless they request a critique or critical comments or constructive feedback. If there only WERE a box to check ! Not everyone thinks to comment as to whether they do or don't want critiqueing. Unless someone is more clearly practiced in writing poetry, and don't ask for it, and depending on the nature of the piece, my presumption would be that they're placing it here for the simple reason of sharing. I could be wrong in that. As you'll recall, this section was created in response to the multiple requests by Georges that a section be created for the sharing of the writing of members. An online poetry workshop wasn't part of the initial lay of the land.


~ Lizzy

I don't remember the history of this place but obviously accept what you say.

If someone receives crit that they didn’t want they can point it out for the next time. and meantime they will survive ( and may even improve their writing).

[Red Poppy]

"Red Poppy, you're just looking for a fight. Get over it. Your weedy sarcasm about the comp. doesn't bother me but it necessarily directs against Manna as well. You may have been in too much of a rush to realise that."

Well, Mickey you continue to duck and dive.

What makes something "weedy" (don't tell me I'm getting under that care-free, care-less skin of yours, oh dear) as oppsed to acceptable?

I think Manna can well speak for herself, if she wants to do so. Dragging her into the discussion is a poor attempt at seeking refuge from the fact that your response was inappropriate. Interesting that you suddenly find it appropriate to metaphorically embrace jimbo and let the spelling and grammar of his latest post go by. The old saying about beggars and choosers springs to mind but then Yeats had an interesting phrase, too, about putting a beggar on horseback!

Actually, I'm not "just looking for a fight."
I have lots of serious fights to fight and I don't need the forum for that.
It seems to me that this attitude of dismissing what you don't like is part and parcel of the assumption of your always being right.

"Neither Red Poppy nor Lizzy own this place or can dictate what it is for."

Absolutely, nor would I want to create that impression.
But I'm not convinced that you feel the same way, mickey!

Actually, I don't think you did miss the point. You just avoided it.

[lizzytysh]

Hi Michael ~

Yes, I don't doubt that they'll survive. Though we may have some near-suicidal posters here, I don't believe we have near-suicidal posters who will go over the edge as the result of a critique on a poem they've posted.

If someone receives crit that they didn’t want they can point it out for the next time.

Yes, that's an option and presumes that there will be a next time. Unfortunately, I feel that the nature of some of your crits are and have been so scathing that some haven't bothered to try again [I'm thinking back to periods when you were very active in this way]... and that others won't even chance it; with us missing out on a wide variety of poems, of varying quality.

With some of your crits, I have laughed; I have agreed; I have disagreed; I have cringed; and with some of them, if I were the writer, I would have thanked you, and with others, I might have cried. In courtrooms, the quick wit; the turns of phrase; the implied and real putdowns; the off-the-wall, but highly memorable, visual and aural associations work really really well... no news to you on that. Your professional status probably attests to your skills in those. Seeing them here, though, with fledgling to amateur poets, however, just feels plain different. It's the intimidation and invalidation factors.

It reminds me of an attorney I had a relationship with years ago. We don't have barristers in the U.S., but he was in the equivalent of "Who's Who" of attorneys. So MUCH of his conversation was one-liners... clever as they may have been, they became tiresome, and I have distinct memories of longing for a simple, old-fashioned, even boring, conversation; but he always had to be 'on,' as though he were trying to win over a judge or jury. In a similar way, when I read your crits, I long for a simple, serious one that still has great suggestions [maybe somewhat differently expressed], but that seems to take into account that there's a real person behind the writing of the poem. It's just what I long for... the same as I long to not end sentences with prepositions .

I think I've probably said all I need to say on this and will conclude my participation in this thread, unless there's a really compelling reason to re-enter it.


~ Lizzy

[damellon]

Well finaly after 7 1/2 months i get some critism after all the shite
i wrote.my poem was a erotic experience.where her mini went over
her head......i dont know her name and never will.it was a man thing
that had to be quenched.been 4 years since.need to do it again


realy enjoyed your posts.all.thank you.i will edit..sometime

regards jimbo

Jimbo
Sounds from this as if you've been disappointed with the critical response to date to your poems. Also that your own opinion of your previous submissions is low. May we take it then that you intend this particular poem to be taken seriously and that you welcome the criticism given? Come on Jimbo - let's hear what you have to say. And though you need to do it again, think about this - it probably looks better in your mind's eye than on paper so would you consider NOT posting the next episode?

[Jimmy O'Connell]

While I'm still in the process of drinking pints of draught Bulmer's with my 'Umble Pie I'd like to throw in my few crumbs, once again.
For me, the thread that playwithfire posted, (whatever happened to him, whoever he is???) sent me all the wrong way.
I responded with a serious observation, only to find that someone was taking the piss.... or.... were they??? I'm not sure.

I misread jimbo's piece, though I did feel that Mickey_one's intention was sound but execution a little on the harsh side... but... was he taking the pissshh... (As you can imagine all these pint draught's of Bulmers to swallow humble pie is taking its toll) ??? Was someone setting up Mickey_one??? I'm relatively new around here, so what the hell do I know??!!!

Let's get back to an even keel here, Lads.

RedPoppy, I find your comments, generally, pretty astute and balanced, though you can lose the head a bit... but hey, who am I, eh??

Mickey_one, I think your instinct is correct... take the criticism, it will help the writing... but... Lizzie has nailed it..... as usual... good on ya a Chailin....

jimbo, call back I would like to hear from you again... this time I promise I will take you seriously and I will forgive your grammar... And have you read my deepest apologies???

And will somebody, do me a favour!!!!
Where, in the name of all Greek and Latin muses, is playwithfire.... has he returned from his "business trip"...???
Now I'm one Irishman who'd love to have a go at him!!! I'm now switching to shots of Jameson.... neat.... no ice.....!!!!!!!!!

Peace and Love to yaz all, me good friends.....
Slainte
Gob fliuich
agus bas in Eireann...

Seamaisin
(Jimmy)

[mickey_one]

I still haven’t mastered how to respond within someone else’s post so forgive this format please

RP “but thank you thank thank you for all the time and effort you put into it (I thought it was by choice but I may be wrong?), we are grateful in the extreme.”


[quote="Red Poppy"]"Red Poppy, you're just looking for a fight. Get over it. Your weedy sarcasm about the comp. doesn't bother me but it necessarily directs against Manna as well. You may have been in too much of a rush to realise that."

Well, Mickey you continue to duck and dive.

What makes something "weedy" (don't tell me I'm getting under that care-free, care-less skin of yours, oh dear) as oppsed to acceptable?

MW “weedy” was a description of the hackneyed “thank you, thank you, thank you” formulaic spiel. Sarcasm needn’t be dull. It can be cutting and funny.

Nope you are not “getting under my skin” but if you ever do can you check out and let me know why I still look only 52.

RP I think Manna can well speak for herself, if she wants to do so. Dragging her into the discussion is a poor attempt at seeking refuge from the fact that your response was inappropriate.

MW We did the comp. together so your sarcastic gratitude goes equally to both unless you have some knowledge that she deserves genuine praise whilst I do not. It's quite a good idea to check your behaviour towards a more likeable person (Manna) instead of just against a local villain (me). Then you can be more objective and maybe realise how misjudged your sarcasm was.


RP Interesting that you suddenly find it appropriate to metaphorically embrace jimbo and let the spelling and grammar of his latest post go by. The old saying about beggars and choosers springs to mind but then Yeats had an interesting phrase, too, about putting a beggar on horseback!

MW Yeats is rubbish. He has written nothing new in years. Jimbo replied like a mensch so deserves respect. I hadn't thought of checking his grammar in an ordinary post. Surely you don't do that! He wasn’t posting a new poem. You must be really pleased that he is so cool and thanked all of us for our posts. I see you don’t acknowledge that but I hope you have secretly noticed and learnt from it.


RP Actually, I'm not "just looking for a fight."
I have lots of serious fights to fight and I don't need the forum for that.
It seems to me that this attitude of dismissing what you don't like is part and parcel of the assumption of your always being right.

MW I express my views, you express yours. I no more think I am right than you probably think you are. On many occasions people have thanked critics, including me, and returned with redrafts or newer, better poems. It's so satisfying. I recommend it to anyone willing to invest their time and effort.

RP "Neither Red Poppy nor Lizzy own this place or can dictate what it is for."

Absolutely, nor would I want to create that impression.
But I'm not convinced that you feel the same way, mickey!

MW I feel I have one vote. I’m sorry I don’t vote the same way as you.

RP Actually, I don't think you did miss the point. You just avoided it.

MW Playing games is really dull. If you would explain the point again that you think I haven’t answered then I will happily respond. But can I kindly ask you to pose it in a straight way. I don't know to what you are referring.

[mickey_one]

Hi Michael ~
I think I've probably said all I need to say on this and will conclude my participation in this thread, unless there's a really compelling reason to re-enter it.


~ Lizzy

there won't be!

btw don't take my editing as a comment, yours was a thoughtful and straight post. appreciated.

[mickey_one]

And will somebody, do me a favour!!!!
Where, in the name of all Greek and Latin muses, is playwithfire.... has he returned from his "business trip"...???
Now I'm one Irishman who'd love to have a go at him!!! I'm now switching to shots of Jameson.... neat.... no ice.....!!!!!!!!!

(Jimmy)

warmest regards from a teetotaller. my question is similar to yours but crucially different as well. WHO is playwithfire? that was not a philisophical or detective query, I simply mean I do not recognise the name at all. from your posts I have no incentive to go and research the answer!

[Red Poppy]

"Long term, your response may not be kinder than mine, it may not even be appropriate!"
That was my central point, mickey.

You assume that I am one of the people who found the poetry competition and analysis and discussion tedious. What I said was:
"....some posters found the ramblings round the poetry competition amusing others found them tedious in the extreme and well up their own collective arse!"
I was enthralled by the poems but, even moreso, by the analysis of the judges and the discussion that followed.

"Sarcasm needn’t be dull. It can be cutting and funny."
Yes, it can be!

"It's quite a good idea to check your behaviour towards a more likeable person (Manna) instead of just against a local villain (me)."
Now THAT is a load of twaddle, mickey Robin Hood. If only there were a tearful violin-playing smilie, I'd post it here.
As you like to insist on clarity, what behaviour exactly do you find unacceptable on behalf of Manna?

"Playing games is really dull."
You're so right mickey. God,you must be bored

[mickey_one]

[quote="Red Poppy"]"Long term, your response may not be kinder than mine, it may not even be appropriate!"
That was my central point, mickey.

there's nothing to answer. your punt is on your approach and my quid is on mine.



You assume that I am one of the people who found the poetry competition and analysis and discussion tedious. What I said was:
"....some posters found the ramblings round the poetry competition amusing others found them tedious in the extreme and well up their own collective arse!"
I was enthralled by the poems but, even moreso, by the analysis of the judges and the discussion that followed.

pleased to hear it


"It's quite a good idea to check your behaviour towards a more likeable person (Manna) instead of just against a local villain (me)."
Now THAT is a load of twaddle, mickey Robin Hood. If only there were a tearful violin-playing smilie, I'd post it here.

it's not twaddle. I fear you don't understand. you can get away with the sarcasm to me (the weedy triple "thank you") but you overlooked that it goes to Manna as well and it doesn't look quite so clever then.


As you like to insist on clarity, what behaviour exactly do you find unacceptable on behalf of Manna?

none, you soft ninny. you really didn't understand, did you!

"Playing games is really dull."
You're so right mickey. God,you must be bored

I've no idea if God is bored but it's the Sabbath now and I would think his adrenalin is well flowing.

[Jimmy O'Connell]

AWW Lads....
Has peace not broken out yet??

The Jameson was good. But I discovered a lad, who knew a lad, who knew where to put his hand on a nice bottle of the quare stuff!! Mighty fine stuff it's turning out to be... made behind a wall... down the end field... where the pratties are transformed into an elixer that Finn McCool hisssssself would take a liking to...

Would the two of you care for a weee dram????
And the lot of us will sing til dawn and tell stories and rade pomes ta wan anudder.... and when we run out of tunes and flutes and fiddles and banjers, sure I'll take a trip to the wee lad I know and get a free re-filll and return to yaz all and we'll let rip with rale criteeekin' and insults ta bate the band.... and then, at the break of dawn the two of ya can line up and bate the crack outta wan anudder whuile the reshht of us rade more pomes ta wan anudder and all will be well... and all manner of tings shall return inta the bussum of mudder earth herselllf....

Agus what ever yer havin' yersel....
Gob fliuich

Seamaisin

[mickey_one]

AWW Lads....
Has peace not broken out yet??

The Jameson was good. But I discovered a lad, who knew a lad, who knew where to put his hand on a nice bottle of the quare stuff!! Mighty fine stuff it's turning out to be... made behind a wall... down the end field... where the pratties are transformed into an elixer that Finn McCool hisssssself would take a liking to...

Would the two of you care for a weee dram????
And the lot of us will sing til dawn and tell stories and rade pomes ta wan anudder.... and when we run out of tunes and flutes and fiddles and banjers, sure I'll take a trip to the wee lad I know and get a free re-filll and return to yaz all and we'll let rip with rale criteeekin' and insults ta bate the band.... and then, at the break of dawn the two of ya can line up and bate the crack outta wan anudder whuile the reshht of us rade more pomes ta wan anudder and all will be well... and all manner of tings shall return inta the bussum of mudder earth herselllf....

Agus what ever yer havin' yersel....
Gob fliuich

Seamaisin

I want what he's drinking.

[Red Poppy]

"I fear you don't understand. you can get away with the sarcasm to me (the weedy triple "thank you") but you overlooked that it goes to Manna as well and it doesn't look quite so clever then."

Now mickey, EVEN by your standards that's the arrogance of the supremely arrogant. How in the name of all that's holy (and isn't) do you know what Manna feels about my posts? Do you think she's so wounded that you have to step between her and my barbs. You DO believe you're Robbing Hood.

"'God,you must be bored'
I've no idea if God is bored but it's the Sabbath now and I would think his adrenalin is well flowing."

Missed the old comma there did we mick? Or were you being "witty"? And, of course, it's only the sabbath for some Gods.

"'As you like to insist on clarity, what behaviour exactly do you find unacceptable on behalf of Manna?'
none, you soft ninny. you really didn't understand, did you!"

Ducking and weaving again, boyo.
I like the "soft ninny" bit.
When all else fails get personally abusive.
Can give but sure as hell can't take, mick.
Bring out your dead.