Before You're Sixty-Four.

mickey_one · Post by **mickey_one** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:17 pm

Hi Andrew, this is good work but I have 2 observation crits if I may.

The line "the hours would fly" is weak. It is clichéd and just not strong enough to open a verse.

More importantly, whilst I understand the end line, and it is perfectly congruent, the image is hackneyed. Therefore I find the climax rather a let down.

I enjoyed the rest and for my taste, you so nearly have a very decent poem here.

regards

michael

Andrew McGeever · Post by **Andrew McGeever** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:26 am

Dear Michael,
"The hours would fly" , I agree , is weak. It troubled me then, and does now. The three lines of that stanza are in iambic tetrameter: the initial dimeter (dee-dum, dee-dum) could , and should have been written better.
Yet I intended to marry "fly" with "by". Maybe that intention got in the way of the flow of the poem. In my defence, (and all writers do this when posed serious questions) , it was deliberate

. Oh yes, I chose a supine start for a stanza filled with wishful thinking.

.

Regarding the coda/closure, it's not a "climax". Yes, I reworked an image from Boris Pasternak's "Doctor Zhivago", but it fitted. "Hackneyed"?....maybe you're right, yet I sleep every night to the sounds of breakers crashing on the shore.

I'm glad you addressed the text: it doesn't occur too often here.

Andrew.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:23 am

Hi Michael ~

How are you? Long time no see!

I had to look back to check because Andrew's poem has been up here for so long; and, I was sure that you were around during that time. When I checked, I discovered that not only were you around, but you were participating in this thread! However, your participation had nothing to do with critiquing Andrew's poem. In fact, it seemed to me that this was part of Andrew's frustration, that people were off on tangents, saying nothing at all about his poem.

So, now I'm wondering why it is that it's taken you so long to return with your critique. The downside is that it's taken you 10 months to formulate one. The upside is that you've finally gotten around to sharing it with us.

Thank you so much!

~ Lizzy

BoHo · Post by **BoHo** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:24 am

Welp, Andrew, gob-smacked it is. Just as long as you leave 'em smacking their lips when you go. Aw, you'll be fabulous; I just know it. That's the first poem I've ever put online; I mean, one that was part of a work I am writing; gads, been online a dozen-plus years. Time fries, huh? Thank you for being gob-smacked about it, too. Geesh, I thought you'd at least ask why the up-twisted alexandrinae. Last time I trust you with a freshly brewed cuppa. Or, the first. Whichever sounds worst.

Lizzy: G'ogle the key words "lesbian," "cop," "cohen," "poet" and then, ogle the list at:

http://www.imdb.com

O, whips; O, chains; O, time to exit the land of the reins. Thoroughly normalising influence. Yep.

The five lines issue from the lesbian cop, name of Alexis. Saved narrator's life, did she. Think of the narrator in my epic as Marlowe in Heart of Darkness (which definitely is interwoven into BOOK IV). Alexis, though? Amazing dame; too bad she got stuck with an epicator such as yours truly.

Another character in the narrative sets her up; her reply is half-cynicism, half heart-broke. (This is poetry, not biography nor auto-bi, as you know, so don't go thinking this is a copy of a RL cop. 'Course, I know you won't. Jes' bitchin' . . ..) When I was writing the first draft, I decided to re-visit these har parts. 'Nym-struck. Can't git enuff o' 'em. Hence, Alexis 'nym. (Also, it does hope it achieves a sub-consciousness connection with Alexandria and, remember, Clytaemnestra and Helen were sisters, right?)

She's telling the character they're stuck in the swamp of poetry, engathered in her arms, devoted their entire life to it; and, for what? Lectures the one struck dumb on the toll it's taken, and "exit" here also refers to Hubert Selby, Jr.'s masterworks, a couple of which also interwingle* with the closer, _Last Exit to Brooklyn_ and _Requiem for a Dream_. I prefer the latter; but, either floats my boat. And, she's a cop. Reads the poetic riot act :). Also, the way the word preceding shrine works six ways to Sunday School. Mostly, for a poet, it's prolly found somewhere at the foot of a statue of the Muse. Ain't been there; couldn't tell ya. Bet she has nailpolished manicured toe-kneels, though, I mean, she wouldn't wear shoes, right? Hell of a prob when you're a statue; first thing anyone who stands on their feet all day wants to do is take off their shoes. Well, sculptors of antiquity knew that, right?

Anyway, I have a question for you, considering the brief nature of this visit: Does this image remind you of anyone and then, if so, do you think Leo might have been referring to Anjani when he wrote, "O, crown of light / O, darkened one (punning dark-end) / I never thought we'd meet . . ." because, is it just me or do you notice a striking resemblance between Kateri and Anjani? If so, my theory concerning TNS's scaffolding continues to hold parchment because she is awaiting canonisation. She's one of the saints, IOW.

More questions, more answers soon. Adam ben meyer? We've never met; so, no, we don't know each other; but, I loved "Letter to America" and when I read the post I came here to find in a reply to Andrew concerning his Question to Tom and Jurica I'm currently writing, I wuz distracted by this thread; I just had to pop the K/A question to Lizzy and so, I guess this post is it . . .

http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/kateri.html

For now -- till later <*waves to Diane, Matj, Friendly ForumEars, et. ilk.*>, Jf/ox
* James Joyce
p.s. Lizzy? Prezzy on Sattiddy, xo
--
BOOK OF LONGING 'SITE ENDORSED BY SINCERELY L. COHEN:
http://www.leonardcohencroatia.com/book ... /notes.htm
THE ITEM THAT HE SENT HER:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/leonardcohen.html
ADAGIOS III: ELECTRA'S BENISON, BOUND!
http://www.oberonpress.ca/titles.pl?v=new
JUDITH FITZGERALD'S WRITESITE REFRESHED:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/
POET PARLIAMENTARIAL:
http://tinyurl.com/38ssjq
WISE GUY OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED:
http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/pub.html
BUCKEYE ON FITZGERALD & OLSON IN OHIO'S HOUSE ORGAN:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/bobbuckeye.html
A CELEB OF WOMEN WRITERS:
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/writers.html
JOANNA M. WESTON ON ORESTES' LAMENT:
http://www.danforthreview.com/reviews/p ... gerald.htm

mickey_one · Post by **mickey_one** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:55 am

lizzytysh wrote:Hi Michael ~

How are you? Long time no see!

I had to look back to check because Andrew's poem has been up here for so long; and, I was sure that you were around during that time. When I checked, I discovered that not only were you around, but you were participating in this thread! However, your participation had nothing to do with critiquing Andrew's poem. In fact, it seemed to me that this was part of Andrew's frustration, that people were off on tangents, saying nothing at all about his poem.

So, now I'm wondering why it is that it's taken you so long to return with your critique. The downside is that it's taken you 10 months to formulate one. The upside is that you've finally gotten around to sharing it with us.

Thank you so much!

~ Lizzy

I had no recollection of the poem at all and was surprised that I had participated before. But i have checked and you are right and it was just Geoffrey/Michael stuff way back in March. It didn't take me long to return with any critique. I read the poem for the first time last night and posted immediately.

mickey_one · Post by **mickey_one** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:08 am

Hi Andrew, thanks for the response. I thought it was possible that "the hours would fly" was a deliberate supine/wistful start.

Your other response was more interesting as I paused before I used the word "climax" and I should have paused even longer! Climax does denote intensity and I was certainly in tune enough with your piece to know that wasn't the mood.

btw I wish I had kept a brilliant article I once read in defence of the cliché. As I suffer from cliché phobia it was particularly stimulating. Of course that really applied to writing which takes the reader from one familiar reference to the next to the next to the next.

For your piece, and not using the word climax, I just wished for an ending that moved me more, leaving me with an original or unusual image as my memory. In other words I didn't find the close as strong as the poem deserved.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:46 pm

< * Lizzy wonders if Leonard knows * >

Y'know, I've never used the word Blimey! There's another Brit term I have used, though, and I'm Gobsmacked, Judith! You don't even need to go that far back to see it, either, just check out [well, not you, of course

, but perhaps someone else... ] the Spanish Tour and photo of Adam, Alberto, and Anjani on page 4 ~ head-tilt left to head-tilt right ~ align Kateri painting beneath Anjani photo ~ ipso presto ~ reincarnate!! Scroll slowly to reveal Kateri's face and note the size and shape of their foreheads... the thickness and style of their hair, absent the braids, and the way it curves against their face... their identical brows... the fullness above their eyes... the bridge of their nose... the largeness and very similar shape of their eyes and their upward tilt... the size, shape, and placement of the apples of their cheeks... the size and shape of their face and squaring off of their jaw, and shape, size, and indent of their chin... [oh, what a world we live in]... the fullness of their lips... and if we could get that Kateri woman to smile, might not the lines in her face be the same. Even, yes, the darkened/dark end colour of their skin.

"I've loved you all my life and that's how I want to end it... " hold dear a painting of your ideal long enough and eventually she will manifest. Remember that film about the painting on the wall that came alive from back in time... was it "The Picture of Dorian Gray"? Except this one on the good side of fate

. I thought there was one about a woman, as well. Amazing, Judith. Anjani/Kateri ~ 6 letters each and end in i. My mind is dancing with your revelation. Striking Resemblance isn't adequate... I won't go any further. "I never thought I'd meet you.... " ~ and he surely did. Now, we honour Anjani.

Ironic that even as Leonard mentioned [to the effect] that when the mist had cleared, he saw the woman standing there, I imagined Anjani standing straight and simply, arms at her sides, looking as an Indian maiden might.

Thank you for your keen eyes and understanding, Judith.

< * Lizzy wonders if Leonard knows * >

Love,
Lizzylu

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:22 pm

Hi Andrew, congrats on all the attention your poem is getting, and good luck with your reading. I never did get my "Sailing by" explanation, but that's OK. I won't even mention it.

Diane

ps Something mischievous in me keeps hoping Geoffrey will turn up and continue in his previous vein like a Shakespearean subplot.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:02 pm

Reading you is so inspirational, Judith... words begin to dance in my head and change partners mid-word, mid-syllable. Your writing gives readers implicit permission to gloriously depart from the norms of linear expression, without feeling silly, bizarre, or at all inappropriate. By syllable, word, or phrase, by juxtaposition and new mergings, it's liberating and instantly takes spontaneous hold. It throws open the window to imagination and drapes the sash of creativity in expression. I love it. Thanks for being you

.

Love,
Lizzydoo

BoHo · Post by **BoHo** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:11 am

Elizabest!

Don't incorrige moi! You knows damned well how you jes' hates it when I gits all swaggadocio 'n' stuff. 'Sides, when it comes to being for real, you prove it's a piece o' cakewalk, thank keerist.

. . . La la la la la la . . . La la la la la la . . . La te da . . .

Love, Jf/ox
--
THE ITEM THAT HE SENT HER:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/leonardcohen.html
ADAGIOS III: ELECTRA'S BENISON, BOUND!
http://www.oberonpress.ca/titles.pl?v=new
JUDITH FITZGERALD'S WRITESITE REFRESHED:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/
POET PARLIAMENTARIAL:
http://tinyurl.com/38ssjq
WISE GUY OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED:
http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/pub.html
BUCKEYE ON FITZGERALD & OLSON IN OHIO'S HOUSE ORGAN:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/bobbuckeye.html
A CELEB OF WOMEN WRITERS:
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/writers.html
JOANNA M. WESTON ON ORESTES' LAMENT:
http://www.danforthreview.com/reviews/p ... gerald.htm

Andrew McGeever · Post by **Andrew McGeever** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:37 pm

For Lizabest and "Judy in the Sky",

My printer isn't printing; isn't doing what it's told.
My left eye is the same as aye.
My notes are scattered.
My goodness, what a state to be in.

But I have promises to keep...

Here's looking at you two,

Andrew.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:50 pm

and

, all, dear Andrew ~

DaVinci would love ya

... and, oh my, what some people can get away with, eh, Judithia

?

Kool Klouds Kreated
fer billowing 2...
Eyes with big assignments
narrow into one...
so much to take in
papers ruffling
in scatteredness...
here's hopin' we fit'in
one good lens.

Lookin' back atcha,
outta my right eye,
outta my mind...

Wishing wells
are made for wishing...
trying not to fall in
as pitch pennies,
nickels, dimes, and quarters
to wish you well.

Heard a rumour...
speedy's lookin' fer ya

...
Hope ya run
into him soon

.

~ Lizabest,
Awaits Judithia in the Sky, Cloud Nine, With Diamonds...

... to put m'little ditty to poetical, prosaical shame... Can't wait

Laura · Post by **Laura** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:40 am

Good luck tomorrow, Andrew.
Laura

BoHo · Post by **BoHo** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:30 am

Andrew: Please do me a favour, one-aye guy o' my sigh-high sky:

Please pass along this small token of fond remembrance of Gael Turnbull's Trio-Dancing when I was but a child in awe of his technical mastery. Seems overdue in the department of tributes. I bet even Stephen Scobie would agree with me concerning this fact. I hope Jill does appreciate how very much we who shall always remember shall always miss her father enlightening our load.

I Sing the Poetic Electric

Who sings of badly broken saints,
of one weathered world gone missing
for the technotic duration;
energy at cross purposes
disguising itself, a refuge
among clusters of brilliant stars?

Because crisp clouds and jigsaw blues
fastened remembrance to sorrow?
Because spider-redolent shrouds
ingathered delicate fabrics
woven with echoing splashes
featuring glittering silence?

Welcome. No, no need for you to remove
your shoes, soul, or world-dust upon entry.
Feel free to simply feel freely at home

with the gravel, boulders, hearts stunned to stone.
Poetry gave me the strength I became.
Never forget: Gael Turnbull is my name.

You will squeeze perfection from your fifteen minutes. Your cheering section's counting on you to come through and, knowing you, a little, we're certain that's exactly what you'll do.

Here's hypin' . . .

Jf/oxoxoxox
--
JF on Michel "le magnifique" Tremblay in The Globe & Mail Today:
http://tinyurl.com/2nqeql
n.b. You may need to register - no charge - to access review.
ADAGIOS III: ELECTRA'S BENISON, BOUND!
http://www.oberonpress.ca/titles.pl?v=new
JUDITH FITZGERALD'S WRITESITE REFRESHED:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/
POET PARLIAMENTARIAL:
http://tinyurl.com/38ssjq

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:43 am

Yep

.

Love ya,
Lizzy