Letter from LC in The Daily Telegraph today

[humanponysss2000]

I may be bored by this discussion, too, but I'm not attacking anybody least of all you.

Other people are being attacked, however, with bombs and missiles as we speak. And our hands are tied to do anything to stop it, apparently, or we've simply decided it's better to hang around the internet than take to the streets.

Here is a silly question for you:

Do you prefer the Beatles to the Rolling Stones?

If you chose the Fab 4, chances are you are "4th dimensional" -- you believe All You Need is Love, you want everyone to Come Together.,

If, on the other hand, you chose the Rolling Stones (a 5-man band, one of their first albums being 5 X 5, their front man Jagger being a quintuple Leo, which is the 5th house) ... then you could be "5th dimensional"

The 4th dimension is the realm of forgiveness, love, and warm fuzzies, where conflict is avoided in favour of a pleasant merging into Oneness. I would equate this state with Nirvana, a realm where divisions disappear and lines of battle are never drawn. Like those movies they took of soldiers on LSD in the 1950s --

The Beatles ushered a generation into the 4th dimension.

But the 4th dimension is also the realm of all kinds of nasty, dark energies, who hide there under a cloak of "peace and love" -- so for example, when you trip out on drugs, alcohol, and LSD, you make yourself open to possession by these entities, and you also become prone to states of confusion.

The 4th dimension is also the Heart Chakra -- a wonderful chakra, I have nothing against it.

But these days the 5th dimension is where I would choose to be: a more focused place of clarity, where people voice their feelings (felt in the heart) through the throat chakra, and where it's ok to perceive Good and Evil and make distinctions.

Sympathy for the Devil was a 5th dimensional song, because it showed us that the devil thrives on our sympathy --

Gimme Shelter tells us, forget about "Peace and Love" until you can manifest them on a battlefield.

And what about Leonard Cohen fans? What "level" are they at? Well, those who take his songs and lyrics literally are pulled into the 4th dimension -- but those who can read between the lines and understand the underlying irony, are getting a glimpse of the 6th dimensional world of Cause and Effect. This is the world while Light and Dark Lords wage war for human minds -- it's the level of karma, which rules human history.

And maybe that's also why Leonard is around today, while John Lennon is "in spirit"

[~greg]

But if the voice of a fictional character in a novel
doesn't belong to its writer to whom it belongs?
Dem

I have often wondered if maybe you weren't a fictional character
yourself, Dem. A self-styled super-hero stereotype of some sort.
Because you demonstrate that kind of remarkable consistency
which is only found in comic book characters, not human beings.

Nevertheless your radical passion does remind me of myself
of a long long time ago. And, since it does, I feel obliged to
give you a bit advise. Which I sincerely mean.

Do not ever join any radical group.

Infiltration is their bread and butter, and you just can't hack it.
While you would never have to hold up under interrogation,
this is only because you would volunteer the information outright
- without needing to be asked - in an emotional tirade of
self-righteousness. The post I quoted is apparently your
theoretical justification for what you demonstrate in all
your posts. That you honestly and simply do not know
the meaning and value of dissembling.

If you're lucky, a radical group might tolerate you for awhile
as an amusement or mascot. But this wouldn't last long.
There is no doubt at all that they would have to terminate you
- sooner rather than later - to protect themselves.

[QuoterGal]

I think maybe sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Quotes should be accurate, and attributions should be thorough. If I was quoted thusly, I would also want the character & work identified.

It seems to me to be completely in character for Mr. Cohen to clarify the origin of that quote -- it was incomplete, and therefore misleading. And I think the Daily Telegraph probably published it as they did to kick up some royal dust -- but it was at LC's expense.

And remember also that this is the man who later called himself "ungentlemanly" for identifying Janis Joplin as the woman in his song "Chelsea Hotel." He would, I think, find the DT attribution that much more offensive because it was ungentlemanly and inaccurate.

"A reader might assume that these are remarks I recently made, or that they are extracted from an interview in the film, or that I talk this way. I don't. I'm not fond of the disrespectful style."

[Tchocolatl]

I'm not attacking you humanponysss2000. I try to communicate with you, that's all. Take it like a friendly confrontation of beliefs.

We are certainly living in a world that has not disclosed all its secrets, and signs are indeed an important mean of communication between human beings, as important as the language, and between them and nature.

Being surrounded by mysteries and being attentive to the signs that can reveal them to us, this is how humanity forged the brain, this is how science came to life, finally. Knowledge.

Yes, being surrounded by this big mystery that is reality in its whole - the experience showed us that our 5 senses can not catch it all, that we have to use our intuition, our logic, that we have to deduce some "invisible" reality - yes, decipher the signs to read the reality is a part of our genetic heritage.

Different levels of understanding a text is a part of our social heritage. Oral societies were using codes : some speakers were talking to a whole group of persons but only a certain elite was understanding a second level. And another one, more instructed in the science of the group, was able to understand also a third level of meaning. So, one group had the information to understand the three levels of meaning, another, two levels of meaning, and another one was just able (lacking the codes to decipher other levels of meanings) the "plain" first level.

All this is true. It is interesting that you make this pattern clear in your posts.

Now, it seems to me that you are living much too much in your head, though, in a world or yours that you made up, that has its own imaginary signs, secrets, level of understandings, copied on the real world and sometimes tightly mixed up with the reality. This is confusing.

Maybe this is the faith of any secret meanings seakers, to lost its sanity sometimes, or forever. So, the important thing, when one lost touch with reality too much, would be to be able to find the path to come back home.

There is a difference between exploring the mysteries of reality - an activity which appears like strange - and getting lost in the twists and turns of the mind, which appears also like a strange activity. Two strange activities, but one is reliated to the reality like a head in the clouds and two feet on the ground. The other is reliated to nothing through nothing, most of the time, unless to nourish the imagination with some real facts, otherwise the system would collapse under its lack of coherence.

Whatever.

I try an exercice : I will say that you have an insight of the reality that I don't have, that you have decoded some signs and explain me some mysteries of life. OK. Let say that I take what you told me for granted. Now your explanation of the reality would not change a lot of those two facts I was telling you : Every external battle (if they have to be) must be win in each individual's hearth to begin with. Otherwise, the vicious circle of violence will never end, the victims becoming the bully that are doing more victims, therefor, more bully, who will create more victims, those victims will turn into bully - all this "justified" by pain. Like if suffering was a justification for anything. You can not see the non-sense of all this? Try a little harder. The victim-bully pattern is two sides of a same phenomenon.

Second fact : The only power to change things (whatever they are, your reality or not) that we have holds in the present moment.

[humanponysss2000]

Tchocolatl, you have an overpowering need to preach and control, and much if not all of what you say about others, applies to you.

I believe I am stating the obvious here. You also have a tendency to personalize every discussion. Everything seems to be about "you" an |the other." It would be difficult if not impossible to remain free in a relationship with you.

I'm being personal, because you always get personal.

Meanwhile, the invasion of Lebanon progresses, our governments are supporting one side, and we are getting closer to a global war over "religion."

So I just thought it was time to point out that the forces that are driving this insane conflict also control our Mr. Cohen.

And when we listen to his songs and decode his letters, we ought to be aware that we are participating in a controlled reality which, at this moment, is running amok.

I continue to wish Mr. Cohen were more in the habit of standing up to authority. But I totally understand why he is not.

But as I said before, his rules of conduct are not absolute - besides which he's not REALLY the perfect gentleman. If he were "the perfect gentleman" he might also start apologizing for the recent deaths of civilians at the hands of the military machine that is America-Britain-Israel.

That would make him a true gentleman, in my mind.

So let us look beyond the surface niceties, to the deeper agenda, and remember we are free and can change the world NOW if we so decide.

[Tchocolatl]

That's it now, your system collapsed under its own incoherence for lack of stay in touch with reality. Your imagination tricked you too much here.

I'm facing your fire of "you-you-you-you". (You are like this and like that : prejudice, insults, whatever). They are not facts. Sorry. They are the proof that you do not pay attention to what I'm telling you, though.

All you want to say, when you come here, finally, is that Leonard Cohen is not OK. Any excuse is good for this. Now this war, is a bargain.

[humanponysss2000]

It's true: Leonard Cohen is not okay. He says so himself repeatedly. He was set up, by the same forces that control our planet and create war, to be the leader of a generation. He was always conscious that this was a deception. He sent out little warnings to his listeners and fans: CAVEAT EMPTOR. He was despised by some people, right from the beginning, and worshipped by others. Not everyone who worshipped him was really a friend of his, some had their own agendas. Throughout all this, he maintained a certain balance. He has aged extremely well. He is a truly kind, generous person who got involved early on with powerful people who were anything but kind and generous -- at some level he is afraid. He lives in a world of fear and punishment -- his songs make this very clear -- because he knows how things really work. He doesn't speak about the places he has been, except in code. Irony and understatement. His songs are letters from prison.

I think it would be better if he spoke out, plainly and openly, but he's bound by the conventions he accepted when he went to work in the Tower of Song. He must keep his messages fuzzy and short. They are meant to warm your heart, and stop your brain. Like going to church. You feel better afterwards. Until the planes come and bomb the church... and then where do you run? Prince Charles is not going to let you into Buckingham Palace, that's for sure.

[humanponysss2000]

Just to change the subject:

Two weeks before she was killed, Princess Diana came to Hydra. She was yachting around the Mediterranean with Dodi. All day long, a helicopter circled the island -- people said it was "the paparazzi" although that doesn't make sense -- more likely it was the military or ???

She strolled around the port, and went into a couple of shops, and the next day she and the yacht were gone.

I happened to be there at the time. I heard about her visit second hand. I had no real interest in Diana -- just thought it was brave of her to be talking about landmines in the House of Lords.

Two days before her death, her photo was on the front page of every British newspaper. They were saying she had gone too far. The implied threat behind those headlines took my breath away.

On the evening before she died, I had a powerful premonition that the world was about to undergo some major trauma. The next morning she was killed. I woke up that morning, knowing nothing of what had happened, but I was already in shock and walked around all day in a daze before I finally heard the news.

Then came the mass weeping and hysteria. And then the media got hold of that emotion, and started twisting it, controlling it, using it for their own purposes.

I was on Hydra when John Lennon was shot -- odd, but I had a premonition about that too. Some say Hydra is a crystal site, that enhances and magnifies energy, causing clairvoyance.

Anyway I prefer to do my crying and screaming BEFORE disaster hits -- because afterwards, there's really no point, is there? Maybe Diana would agree.

So the reason I will not be meeting Leonard at the corner, is that for me there is still a street -- or at least a way through the rubble.

[Tchocolatl]

Humanponysss2000 everybody knows the dice are loaded, dear.

This is the evidence. This is a fact.

What it is not an evidence is your statement about the songs of Leonard Cohen and religion being like a pill to sleep. This is not a fact but the way you think that people are using it.

You may refer to the "opium of the mob" thing of the socialists and the communists, like if to be awaken in their way had not been a lethal illusion that did stop the brain - and the life - of so many.

You are taking radical political position. You seem to be part of a kind of esoteric political group of some sort. Is it the case? If yes, what is it?

It is just that for me there will be any good social (including religions)/political/economical systems until the matter of which the systems are made : us, human beings - until a certain number of persons - both males and females equally - will have done a qualitative leap into consciousness and will be more close to reality - less lured by illusions.

This is where our difference stands.

They are not so opposed as one can think. Some of us - human beings - have to be involved in politics.

Not all of us, though have the taste to be active in politics - although any of us can escape the political dimension of our life. That does not mean those people are doing nothing for society to go well. They are doing it differently than politicians and activists, that's all.

People that are not sharing 100% of your point of views&activities have guts too you know.

[Dem]

greg adviced me:

"Do not ever join any radical group."

Thanks pa!
And don't worry.
No such danger.

I am a radical group by myself!

Dem

PS) And I am sure you know well about amusing mascots.
You see one every morning while brushing your teeth.

[Dem]

"Madame Bovary, c’est moi"-Gustave Flaubert

[humanponysss2000]

I never thought we had real major differences, Tchokolatl -- you just love to argue, mostly esoterically, about everything under the sun.

What is so esoteric about looking at the bombs and rubble and nearly 400 dead bodies of civilians and Lebanon, and feeling sick to ones stomach?

And -- yes I hate to say it -- but where are BONO and GELDOF and LEONARD, those patron saints of Peace, while this is happening?

Why aren't they using their clout with the media, or climbing on the rooftop, to say STOP these war crimes now.

It's all like some big flashback to Nazi Germany -- and don't our "leaders" notice this, and have a responsibility to point it out?

Why at a time like this are they all silent?

[Dem]

Why at a time like this are they all silent?

Good question.

And yes, an artist speaks mainly through his work
but there are certain times that this is not enough.


Dem

[humanponysss2000]

Humanponysss2000 everybody knows the dice are loaded, dear.


What it is not an evidence is your statement about the songs of Leonard Cohen and religion being like a pill to sleep. This is not a fact but the way you think that people are using it.

You may refer to the "opium of the mob" thing of the socialists and the communists, like if to be awaken in their way had not been a lethal illusion that did stop the brain - and the life - of so many.

You are taking radical political position. You seem to be part of a kind of esoteric political group of some sort. Is it the case? If yes, what is it?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I DON'T KNOW WHAT GROUP I BELONG TO, BUT I SUSPECT I MIGHT BE A "CHRISTIAN" -- I mean, I'm just guessing here -- but I believe Jesus is down on record somewhere as having been against the wholesale slaughter of innocent people. I can't give you the exact quote, though.

I mean, these days only idiots (and Arabs) need to go through all the mess and bother of getting crucified.

There are all kinds of groups you can join that make dying on the cross obsolete.

Maybe Leonard is living proof that you can deal with the devil and still be very, very Holy.

[Tchocolatl]

Dem, watch out to not poison yourself at the end.

Humanponysss2000, true that I like to argue about anything under the sun. And that I'm curious about esoterism too.

But there is nothing esoteric in my beliefs, changes are to be done in the body. And not in the ether that would change the material world.

Jesus was not a terrorist. Don't mix the cards.

Anyway.

So, then, according to your logic, where is Bob Dylan among others? He was giving a concert for Peace in Spain few weeks ago, can't he rush to Lebanon now?

Bono was asked by his group to make a choice : do politic or do music but not both or at least not both with us. They are right : rock stars are not politicians.

Leonard Cohen never gave an open opinion, or rarely. It seems that at his age, this is a thing that has not changed. I think that he can not take side as long as there will be fanatism in politic. This is my belief, I do not say this is the truth. But when he sang : both sides don't like what I'm fighting for (not exact quote, OK?) this is what he meant.

There is no nazy anymore as well as there is no resistance - those are concepts of a certain time in history that are past now.

Still, there is injustice, violence, abuse of power.

If you consider that terrorism is a nice activity, peaceful, gentle, correct, just, and without any abuse, and that this is not war, it is up to you. This is another difference between us two, though.

Now not everybody thinks the same, not even the Lebanon people who would like the Hezbola to stop the terror and let Lebanon people live in peace.

There is some Jews who ask Israel to stop the hostilities.

World is not this cow-boy movie in black and white, with the "goods" on a side and the "bads" on the other.

But like I said this war is a bargain for your hobby of coming here to complain about Leonard Cohen. Anything. You say anything. He would have said himself this and that. Did you ever heard about the Syndroma of the Impostor? Another bargain for your mania.

If you are not part of a group, then where did you take your statement about the 4th, 5th, and 6th levels? Did you create it yourself?