I find it is very often a matter of interpretation..
Midnight claims that "all religions contradict each other in essentials."
That's fine as far as your average follower goes, and his/her interpretations of that tradition's scriptures.
And yes, very often it's true of official leaders.
But is it true of the contemplatives, the mystics, those who have spent twenty years or more meditating, inquiring into their own mind, seeking the true imago dei? These people constitute a minority in any religion, but they also represent the very core of their tradition, in that they are the ones who have truly explored the implications of living a spiritual life.
Based on my own reading of such people - both contemporary and historical - I would most definitely say that at that level, there is little if any contradiction. Truth is experienced directly, it is not something that is established by referring to a text.
A great example of this approach is the website http://www.gratefulness.org - a site maintained by Benedictine monk David Steindl-Rast.
~Taigaku
my question to a lot of you
Hi Taigaku ~
I agree with your [and Makera's] perspective. Of course, doesn't Buddhism say this life is one of suffering? Yet, separation from G~d, from the Christian perspective, is also considered suffering. Anyway, the visual I've always had [and still do], of the various religions and spiritual practices, takes the shape of a pie, with a hole in the center. That hole represents G~d, the One, the whatever. The remainder of the pie is cut into pie-shaped pieces [now absent their points, due to the circle in the center] and each piece represents a different route [religion/spiritual practice] to the center. I think you could, perhaps, even extend the analogy a bit, with the closest to the center signifying the space occupied by the mystics, in-depth practicers that you speak of, and the further out perimeters of each slice signifying the space of the less-intense, more-casual practicers and people in the congregations, etc. This view is the only one, with which I feel truly comfortable, as all others require a certain 'judgmentalism' of being 'right/wrong.'
~ Elizabeth
I agree with your [and Makera's] perspective. Of course, doesn't Buddhism say this life is one of suffering? Yet, separation from G~d, from the Christian perspective, is also considered suffering. Anyway, the visual I've always had [and still do], of the various religions and spiritual practices, takes the shape of a pie, with a hole in the center. That hole represents G~d, the One, the whatever. The remainder of the pie is cut into pie-shaped pieces [now absent their points, due to the circle in the center] and each piece represents a different route [religion/spiritual practice] to the center. I think you could, perhaps, even extend the analogy a bit, with the closest to the center signifying the space occupied by the mystics, in-depth practicers that you speak of, and the further out perimeters of each slice signifying the space of the less-intense, more-casual practicers and people in the congregations, etc. This view is the only one, with which I feel truly comfortable, as all others require a certain 'judgmentalism' of being 'right/wrong.'
~ Elizabeth
Does anyone know how many religions there are in the world? I have no idea but the followers of any of them believe that theirs is the one.
The old adage about not discussing religion and politics does save a lot of arguments.
We just have to accept that different people believe in different things.
I remember once being told that you don't choose what religion you follow, you follow what your parents believed. I know some people chop and change religions but the vast majority just stay with the one that has been instilled in them from an early age.
Does it matter who believes in what it is a faith which means no one can prove either way. When I am at the Pearly Gates and they won't let me in because I didn't believe I am sure I will go to a place jam packed with other souls like me because there are millions like me.
I don't think Christianity takes a bashing on this board as such it is just the Christian voice is louder and, dare I say it, preaching at us.
The old adage about not discussing religion and politics does save a lot of arguments.
We just have to accept that different people believe in different things.
I remember once being told that you don't choose what religion you follow, you follow what your parents believed. I know some people chop and change religions but the vast majority just stay with the one that has been instilled in them from an early age.
Does it matter who believes in what it is a faith which means no one can prove either way. When I am at the Pearly Gates and they won't let me in because I didn't believe I am sure I will go to a place jam packed with other souls like me because there are millions like me.
I don't think Christianity takes a bashing on this board as such it is just the Christian voice is louder and, dare I say it, preaching at us.
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Teratogen
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- Location: Santa Clarita, California
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well i dunno about that, paula. i candidly admit to christian-bashing. and as much as midnight is a scornful critic he sure does seem to have a lot to say about tolerating other peoples' religions.
and i DO honestly think at least that christianity runs the united states. and the united states runs a lot of other stuff in the world. a good chunk of the world is run by christianity. if there are more muslims than christians in the world, then whatever, they don't have as much power as christians do.
and i DO honestly think at least that christianity runs the united states. and the united states runs a lot of other stuff in the world. a good chunk of the world is run by christianity. if there are more muslims than christians in the world, then whatever, they don't have as much power as christians do.
hi.ok, im feeling very foolish know for bringing this up,especially as it seems to have angered and upset some people. paula, i never ment to preach at you.im really sorry if it has come across like that, please forgive me and understand that it was never my intention.i respect everyone on here too much to try and enforce my own views on you.im really sorry if this thread has resulted in this happening.
luke, you are quite right, my use of "racism"was inappropriate.as you can tell, i tried to clarify what i ment later, but i fear that the damage has already been done.i was incorect in my explaination and wording, sorry once again.
teratogen, hi.whilst i dont always agree with what you put, i respect you for your opinions,and hope that you wont hold my Christianity against me.(oh, and it really annoys me when i see people getting all "bannerwaving" over music like m m.they should just ket the concerts be.)
makera, thank you for voicing more eloquenty what i ever could have.you are correct in stating that sometimes we need correcting and teaching when our own methods go against Gods teaching.thank you for your patience with me.
my apologies once again.i typed a poor poem in responce to what i felt inside when i had read some other own views.this was just ment as my own "2 cents".i felt that this bored ws a place where i could go to be with like minded people who connected with me over leonards music.im sorry, if i have overstepped the boundries.
jemima
luke, you are quite right, my use of "racism"was inappropriate.as you can tell, i tried to clarify what i ment later, but i fear that the damage has already been done.i was incorect in my explaination and wording, sorry once again.
teratogen, hi.whilst i dont always agree with what you put, i respect you for your opinions,and hope that you wont hold my Christianity against me.(oh, and it really annoys me when i see people getting all "bannerwaving" over music like m m.they should just ket the concerts be.)
makera, thank you for voicing more eloquenty what i ever could have.you are correct in stating that sometimes we need correcting and teaching when our own methods go against Gods teaching.thank you for your patience with me.
my apologies once again.i typed a poor poem in responce to what i felt inside when i had read some other own views.this was just ment as my own "2 cents".i felt that this bored ws a place where i could go to be with like minded people who connected with me over leonards music.im sorry, if i have overstepped the boundries.
jemima
how come you bother with my heart at all
Hi Jemima ~ 
Paula is quite right, there is no need to apologise for expressing your
honest thoughts and concerns.
It is always healthy and helpful to discuss what bothers us and this is as good a place as any, and probably better than most.
Also, as Taigaku has rightly pointed out, most of the problems arise from differing interpretations and terms. There is a vast difference between the original teachings of most religions and their actual organized practice by the majority of their followers.
It is helpful to remember, I think, the significant difference between 'religion' and 'spirituality'. Religion is from the Latin meaning
'bond' or to 'bind'. When organized into man-made institutions (however well meant) they, ipso facto, become hierarchical systems of power and control.
To be truly spiritual is to recognize you are 'bound' by nothing.
Love & Light,
~ Makera
Paula is quite right, there is no need to apologise for expressing your
honest thoughts and concerns.
It is always healthy and helpful to discuss what bothers us and this is as good a place as any, and probably better than most.
Also, as Taigaku has rightly pointed out, most of the problems arise from differing interpretations and terms. There is a vast difference between the original teachings of most religions and their actual organized practice by the majority of their followers.
It is helpful to remember, I think, the significant difference between 'religion' and 'spirituality'. Religion is from the Latin meaning
'bond' or to 'bind'. When organized into man-made institutions (however well meant) they, ipso facto, become hierarchical systems of power and control.
To be truly spiritual is to recognize you are 'bound' by nothing.
Love & Light,
~ Makera
Hi Jemima~
You are not in the least bit responsible for anyone's reaction to your question. We are all responsible for our own actions/reactions no matter what the circumstances. Don't fret another second, Please
I do hope within all this contention, agreements and half-agreements you can find some sort of answer to your inquiry. And it looks like you got a lesson in what happens when religion is discussed amongst the masses, whether you asked for it or not
It was a good, sincere question.
cheers,
Laurie
You are not in the least bit responsible for anyone's reaction to your question. We are all responsible for our own actions/reactions no matter what the circumstances. Don't fret another second, Please
I do hope within all this contention, agreements and half-agreements you can find some sort of answer to your inquiry. And it looks like you got a lesson in what happens when religion is discussed amongst the masses, whether you asked for it or not
It was a good, sincere question.
cheers,
Laurie
just something I've always wondered about
this heated discussion was really interesting to me. My mother was Orthodox, my dad Catholic, my cousins are jewish and my ex-boyfriend was from a muslim family. My boss is a born-agaion christian (and most un-christian in his behaviour) I have had an undulating flirtation with buddhism (which I've always thought of as a philosophy rather than a religion) and I have to say I don't really think any one of those is THE way to go. Neither are they evil and bad.
I probably disagree with the statement about Christianitys faults lying in the message and not the messenger. I find teh messengers (the loud ones) to be offensive in their interpretation and one-size fits all attitude, but maybe all opinionated fundamentalists are similar in this regard.
I don't live there, but am visiting in three weeks so I plan to find out, but it always seemed to me that the powers that be in the US are certainly using God and christianity as a platform. Maybe it's just lip service but here are some quick facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
and
http://www.hooverdigest.org/002/novak.html
as you know you can always believe everything you read on the net!
I probably disagree with the statement about Christianitys faults lying in the message and not the messenger. I find teh messengers (the loud ones) to be offensive in their interpretation and one-size fits all attitude, but maybe all opinionated fundamentalists are similar in this regard.
I don't live there, but am visiting in three weeks so I plan to find out, but it always seemed to me that the powers that be in the US are certainly using God and christianity as a platform. Maybe it's just lip service but here are some quick facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
and
http://www.hooverdigest.org/002/novak.html
as you know you can always believe everything you read on the net!
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Buddha
Buddha
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Teratogen
- Posts: 1653
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
- Contact:
insanitor: those links are interesting. this isn't all new stuff though. you can find "god" and "christianity" everywhere, and, as harmless as it seems, it's the governing belief system for this nation. morality? you KNOW that whole theory was christian-based. hahaha. 
everyone uses christianity as a platform for whatever their personal agenda is. george w. bush tells us all god is on his side in the war in iraq. does that justify his actions? people kill others in the name of god, and then in prison they "find jesus" and all is well. is there something wrong with that or is it just me? christianity is so big in this country that the best way to secure a vote is to be christian. just make sure you're the right denomination. hahaha. it's the politician's platform for sure. not even every public school is safe from it. i had a hardcore christian teacher who had his own hidden agenda. he didn't care about his students. he was this young asian guy, wanted to get a doctorate in education, but he had to have 2 years of teaching under his belt. he didn't give a shit about any of us, but he did try to convert my friend and get him to come to his church. he would tell people in class that they needed jesus. i mean, c'mon. and when people complained about him the principal did nothing. why? because the principal was a hardcore christian, too. it pretty much covers the 5 main agents of socialization--things which we cannot escape as social beings. religion (that's a given), education (separation of church and what?), the media (ever heard of trinity broadcasting network?), the government (that's a given, too), and family (if you're born into it, they've already got you).
everyone uses christianity as a platform for whatever their personal agenda is. george w. bush tells us all god is on his side in the war in iraq. does that justify his actions? people kill others in the name of god, and then in prison they "find jesus" and all is well. is there something wrong with that or is it just me? christianity is so big in this country that the best way to secure a vote is to be christian. just make sure you're the right denomination. hahaha. it's the politician's platform for sure. not even every public school is safe from it. i had a hardcore christian teacher who had his own hidden agenda. he didn't care about his students. he was this young asian guy, wanted to get a doctorate in education, but he had to have 2 years of teaching under his belt. he didn't give a shit about any of us, but he did try to convert my friend and get him to come to his church. he would tell people in class that they needed jesus. i mean, c'mon. and when people complained about him the principal did nothing. why? because the principal was a hardcore christian, too. it pretty much covers the 5 main agents of socialization--things which we cannot escape as social beings. religion (that's a given), education (separation of church and what?), the media (ever heard of trinity broadcasting network?), the government (that's a given, too), and family (if you're born into it, they've already got you).
respect
and i respect all religions that respect other religions
Hi Jemima and Teratogen ~
Please, neither of you, don't take anything said here in the way of anti-Christian remarks, or remarks regarding anti-Christian remarks, personally. There has been much along both lines here, long prior to either of your arrivals. Jemima ~ expressing your personal feelings, in your own words, as to how these things affect you, couldn't be more legitimate.
~ Lizzy
Please, neither of you, don't take anything said here in the way of anti-Christian remarks, or remarks regarding anti-Christian remarks, personally. There has been much along both lines here, long prior to either of your arrivals. Jemima ~ expressing your personal feelings, in your own words, as to how these things affect you, couldn't be more legitimate.
~ Lizzy